I think what you’re doing sounds fun and I support you 100%. But FWIW, reading through @Fasciae’s various comments to you, even though he can come off as mocking, I do see some lines of questioning that could conceivably make you guys even more solid tanks if you looked into what he was asking.
The difference here seems to be that he’s a really “mathy” kind of guy, the kind that thinks like a developer, while y’all are more the “doers” who just go out and try stuff. There’s nothing wrong with your style, it’s just that I think that’s what explains his tone when he’s addressing you.
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I’m probably a tad too sharp with folks other than Caper, and I come down on him hard because he’s the guide writer, so I expect a certain level of expertise. I get the “we can do what people said we couldn’t” attitude, that was me in Vanilla, but it wasn’t until I could put numbers to paper and SHOW it that anyone took me seriously.
What’s funny about all of this is that it is almost a step-for-step repeat of the original Tank forums, except I had Warriors then like Kungen and others ripping on anyone that wasn’t highly progressed for “just not understanding the whole picture” while never actually addressing an argument in good faith. Being told anyone other than a Warrior couldn’t survive harder fights in Ulduar was amusing.
I’ll ease off the rhetoric.
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I mean he has an in game item named for him. Doesn’t that get him the right to scoff and look down? Doesn’t that make his point of view and math superior to those “Doer” guys out there practicing what they preach? He was doing all of this before it was cool doesn’t that count for something?
Videos, logs and downed bosses > Math
As the video zamkabob posted about a dozen of us at lvl 60 raid tanking on Fairbanks, haha. At least the ones I know of. They’re pretty easy to spot, because you’ll see in say chat, “YOOO, YOU A SHAMAN TANK? THAT’S AWESOME. you tank raids too??” So much fun. Guilty pleasure: I’ll sometimes leave on my draconian deflector over my malistars, because I get sooo many more awesome comments 
Oh I totally agree. I’m too stupid to be a spreadsheet commander. Not a huge number of people smart enough with the class to be able to manage them either. Also, to expect everything from a single person seems crazy, especially when he’s updating his spreadsheet so often with information discussed on the shaman tanking discord. From what I saw, even Fasciae relied on the community to come up with the math to prove his druid tanking (I could be wrong! That’s just how I read it). We don’t have a huge community like druids did/do, and are in the beginning stages of the same theorycrafting; however, by just ‘feeling it out’ which will make some on this forum wince, we’ve already achieved more than anyone was willing to admit us able to achieve. Since we keep finding new strategies, more efficient itemization, etc, we’ll only get better!
Love you babe, but beating up the Cap man is harsh too. He’s done a lot already, probably more than either of us as just a single person. Or at the very least me, haha! I know you don’t like his grandiose claims, but you have to admit what he’s done so far is impressive and I don’t blame him for being excited. Give him (and us) some time
I should hope so! I’m hyped to tank Broodlord day 1, should be interesting Hopefully 8.5~k hp and 13k~ armor should be enough.
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Just don’t be surprised when that bar goes higher or the haters nit pick and call it luck…
It’s all good. I’m fine pushing myself and the bar further w/ my shaman companions. Literally the reason I’m playing on shaman-tank hard mode. Hoping it works in the first place, because our guild is pretty laid back.
And surprisingly extremely few haters. Why I was so surprised by this forum thread, which isn’t so much haters but inquisitive or disbelieving I think. Even the top min-max guilds on our server, the ones you’d expect to be disgusted by my presence, LOVE when I come to UBRS with them. Several have chars in our guild. People PM non-stop love and progress updates.
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Hun, this is a video game with orcs and dragons. I don’t know what “realism” you’re talking about.
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That’s adorable. But no.
Videos reveal more against the idea than for it, but as with a showcasing of incomplete info, any dissection of any video typically ends with naked skepticism. Likewise, killing bosses means very little as well when the discussion hinges on ability to do the MT job from start to finish. A “tank” that goes splat while the rest of the Raid kills it, or a “tank” that needs extra babysitting, etc, is not a valid inference of viability.
Logs on the other hand, that is the math. And the logs show excess damage taken relative to even Druids rocking TPS sets (low armor/health) and Warriors who are Fury Tanking. The math tells us how little things will scale going forward, which is the biggest issue for Shaman.
Harsh as I am, I do it because I want theorycrafters to be better than they often are. The work can be cumbersome and exhausting, especially doing it alone, but it just isn’t enough to be ABLE to do something, it should be optimized even within the constraints. If someone is serious about doing something like Priest Smite DPS or Shaman Tanking, I would hope they’d actually suss out every inch of the spec to find the perfect set of gear and verify it against the encounters we face.
Because if they get threat they die lmao
You know druids get a huge armor multiplier in dire bear form right? Their leather is way better than a shaman’s mail.
lol wat
Why are you replying to me?
Can you not see your comment?
Click the arrow beside your name in my reply to you and it will show what I replied to.
I mean its true. It does massive threat. I never said that they should tank. Only thst earthshock is massive threat.
I didn’t disagree with you dude. But lots of classes can rip aggro at the start. We don’t for the same reason as shamans don’t, if they’re smart…
Rank 5 Earthshock is 235-249 base damage, plus 38.6% of your Spell Power. It does double its total damage as threat.
However, because it is on the Spell Hit table rather than the Melee Hit table, it has a substantial chance of whiffing against bosses entirely before we even account for low amounts of Nature Resist. Spell Hit isn’t exactly a Mail Armor available stat and you have to give up quite a few things to get Nature’s Guidance. So if RNG favors you, sure, you do comparable threat in that moment to a Shield Slam or Maul, but otherwise suffer rather nasty penalties no other Tank has to deal with outside of Taunt.
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You are forgetting nearly all shamans use rockbiter which increases threat not only of melee hits but of all spells.
Rockbiter Weapon only applies to melee attacks and is a static amount. Shaman have no threat auras or passives otherwise and only Earth Shock does bonus threat.
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Pretty sure it has a hidden stat that increases all threat not only melee. Tool tip says melee but it actually does all.
Its like the paladin abilities that say increass hdmg. It actually does all dmg not just holy.