Point of order: Armor caps out at 75% damage reduction, at 17,265 Armor.
However, the sweet spot with Druids is being able to maintain at/around that value with a Priest buff while stacking on as much Health and TPS stats as we can manage. Because our Health scales faster than any other class in the game, and we’re at the highest possible Armor, only Naxx Warriors with a Priest proc can achieve similar EH, but not with the simultaneous TPS.
so that armor cap of 75% i just when diminishing returns hit armor pretty bad, but you can get higher than that. A druid in the best of the best gear with all the buffs and a paldin lay on hands for 30% more armor can be at 23,000 armor and have 83% damage reduction. anything over 75% is kinda waste tho.
Edit: Sorry i remembered Taladril’s Treatise on Druid Tanking in Vanilla wrong. Just looked it up. he got to 26,408 for 82.8 dmg reduction.
No you misunderstand, the character sheet isn’t actually accurate past 75% because the game hard-caps your mitigation at that point. So even if you hit 21k+ Armor, you’re not actually reducing your damage at all compared to the cap at 17,265 Armor. So as neat as it is to get a Lay on Hands on top of Inspiration, if you shoot past the cap, you get literally no value out of it.
If p-servers allowed for armor mitigation to continue beyond 75%, they really did it wrong.
Sorry man i dont think thats right. We just suffer hard diminishing returns after that.
Magma and Fire Nova totem have their own threat. Useless tool for generating additional threat.
https://classic.wowhead.com/guides/classic-wow-stats-and-attributes-overview#armor
https://vanilla-wow.fandom.com/wiki/Armor
The formula scales the same regardless, with no new DR “kicking in” at any specific point. TTL stays absolutely linear up to the 75% hard cap.
If we could actually go above 75%, Druids would be nigh invincible late-AQ40 and Naxx, particularly for the Horde with stacking Ancestral Guidance and Inspiration procs.
10 characters
The biggest lie in this thread right here…
Ya this one threw me for a loop.
Naxx mail and tank shield with Toughness is ~8k AC unbuffed. Every other ounce of AC has to come from Rings, Neck, Cloak, Weapon, Trinkets, and so on.
Naxx Warriors BiS unbuffed are 10k AC.
Druids will stack about 13k AC, sans Devotion, prior to standard buffs to reach 13.8k prior to Inspiration / Ancestral Healing procs.
At best your going to be 4k AC short…
Your also never going to have the HPs of Dire Bear due to Heart of the Wild and DB innate HP bonus.
Since EH is based on AC and HPs I don’t understand the rationale behind this…
At that stage of the game you won’t be using AC in the hands anyways because of threat concerns…ie MCP use.
Also no AC in your second trinket either…Drake Fang is too powerful in terms of threat to give up.
Druids mostly start swapping in AQ 40 starting with Regalia for our weapon when not using an MCP. AQ 40 is like a Feral loot buffet…enjoy it while you can, because Naxx doesn’t add alot for Bear.
J-School is calling
Da fook is J-School?
You’ll learn when you’re older.
This right here.
If shamans had a shield block type skill they would be amazing tanks and in pvp. Imagine a shaman with a Shield Block type ability that just consumed a lightning shield ball charge to block (up to double the block damage of the damage the ball would otherwise inflict to enable scaling) an upcoming melee attack? That would be amazing.
What holds back Druid tanks is lack of +defense and the inability to parry or block attacks. But that is made up by large armor, HP, and dodge values. Coupled with a real taunt and good threat generation druids can tank perfectly fine.
Shamans however need to overcome potential mana issues, total lack of inherent melee abilities, boss resistances to nature with no curse / buff synergy (aside thunderfury proc which implies you have a tfury tank anyway), no block / taunt ability, can’t parry by default, low block change without pumping points into dead end talents, and mail armor.
Fine for tanking dungeons when over geared or in your early 40’s, but aside that there are TOO many problems. The enhance tree being total garbage and having remnants of a potential tanking tree from EARLY Vanilla WoW days before the dev team gave up on making them viable specs (Shamans were the ONLY class to not get a tree revamp until TBC prepatch) means you can generate threat, but you are not able to tank properly.
It sucks but it is what it is.
Are you really comparing 2 classes… one with bluffs and the other without?
Make a straight up no buff comparison. Or, use buffs for both.
You don’t get to spout theory crafting, and then use unequal examples like you did. I also find it suspicious that you compare yourself to a warrior and completely forget about parry. Sure he may have less dodge (unbuffed), but he has at least 5% parry.
In short… can shamans tank? Yes… as long as your raid is willing to work harder.
Wait wait wait. Stop the totem train!
Guys, he just wants validation for all he has achieved.
Fasciae I think it is super cool that you have achieved so much! Great work! Maybe some day Caperfin can be as cool as you!
My fellow shaman please give the elf a hand and say some kind words! He has an in-game item named for him! He is probably college educated and certainly does not live in a basement.
Please post a reply showing your respect. 1 post = 1 respect
I would say by extension Warlocks can tank fine in raids too… with the same clause. Hence Shamans and Warlocks are not tanks. Yes I am aware of the twin emps fight. Exceptions prove the rule. Yes I’m also aware of a vanilla era video of a shaman tanking Vael. But that’s piss poor evidence of viable tanking because a shadow priest has tanked Onyxia in Classic. Are shadow preists tanks? No. its just means a raid was able to keep a preist alive while it maintained threat with mindblast.
The litmus test in BWL will be Broodlord, a fight where both TPS and survival are key for the Tanks.
I’m sure before long enough a mage or rogue will be able to tank that fight as well… given the right gear. It won’t mean either or any are tanks. It just means the boss was able to be “tanked” by said class.
I agree entirely. Being a meat-bag that Healers can keep alive in front of a Boss while holding threat is the foundation of being a Tank to be sure, but viability is dependent upon so much more than merely meeting that threshold.
I’ll care less about a Rogue coming back in T3 and Evasion “tanking” Broodlord than if one can do it on progression.
After Vael, broodlord is basically a giant loot pinata. I’ve never wiped on him, ever.