Shaman Tanks Karazhan 11/11 World First

[Darkgrudge-maelstrom]

The video was fun, but man the arm-chair tanks in this thread is where it’s at.

The Shaman tanked the instance. Period. It doesn’t matter what elitist standard of tank you want to apply to it, and he clearly tanked about as well as a fresh druid in greens, but he still tanked it. Doesn’t matter if you don’t like that they were able to pull it off because “Blizz didn’t intend this meta to be possible.” The Shaman. Tanked. Kara.

It’s a given he can’t do it without over-geared support, and it’s a given he would suffer more significantly from RNG – just as any fresh tank would (or even a bad pally tank who is bad about hitting holy shield on CD). Obviously it wasn’t a min/max raid going for parses, and it clearly took effort (and RNG luck) to accomplish.

Arguing whether or not he tanked it is dumb. He clearly did. Argue against it’s viability in other encounters all you want, or critique how it could’ve done it better – but saying he didn’t do what you’re clearly watching him do…just bizarre.

No, Shamans aren’t automatically a tanking class because of this. Just like if we see a video of a Hunter’s pet tanking the entire instance, we’re not automatically going to make Hunter’s MTs. It’s a fun thing to see…leave it at that.

[Fasc-atiesh]

@Magicblunt-pagle

It does not render the tank distinction pointless.

It does, because you only need the boss to die. That was your big criteria, success. Dead DPS still see a dead boss.

By your criteria, a bunch of Hunters somehow kiting a boss (holding aggro, surviving) are Tanks, even if they never take a hit.

[Darkgrudge-maelstrom]

@Fasc-atiesh

By your criteria, a bunch of Hunters somehow kiting a boss (holding aggro, surviving) are Tanks, even if they never take a hit.

They are in that example. If they held the threat of the mob and didn’t die, they were the tank for that encounter/mob. That’s literally the role.

Edit: Fixed a word

[Candielyn-westfall]

The state of the world in general, where some people feel the need to defecate on things that other people do because they don’t adhere to the ‘meta’ or ‘societal norm’.

[Fasc-atiesh]

@Darkgrudge-maelstrom

Doesn’t matter if you don’t like that they were able to pull it off because “Blizz didn’t intend this meta to be possible.”

That’s not why the Shaman didn’t Tank.

@Darkgrudge-maelstrom

it’s a given he would suffer more significantly from RNG

The threshold for a Tank is to be able to survive the worst RNG that isn’t player error. You aren’t Tanking if you have to hope you keep Dodging or Parrying to stay alive.

@Darkgrudge-maelstrom

Thank are. If they held the threat of the mob and didn’t die, they were the tank for that encounter/mob. That’s literally the role.

So Tanking and Kiting are the same thing now? If I ask someone to Tank something and they start running through the instance I shouldn’t say anything since they’re doing what I asked?

[Darkgrudge-maelstrom]

@Fasc-atiesh

The threshold for a Tank is to be able to survive the worst RNG that isn’t player error. You aren’t Tanking if you have to hope you keep Dodging or Parrying to stay alive.

No, it’s not. The threshold is to hold threat and not die. Doesn’t matter how many times it took for RNG to line up to accomplish that. He tanked the raid bosses.

Sorry you don’t like it, but he did.

@Fasc-atiesh

So Tanking and Kiting are the same thing now? If I ask someone to Tank something and they start running through the instance I shouldn’t say anything since they’re doing what I asked?

Yep – keeping threat and not dying is literally the role of the tank. That’s the bare minimum. A kiting hunter is a tank. He accomplished both of those goals.

[Fasc-atiesh]

@Darkgrudge-maelstrom

The threshold is to hold threat and not die.

So the Shaman is still not a Tank since he died a lot.

@Darkgrudge-maelstrom

Doesn’t matter how many times it took for RNG to line up to accomplish that. He tanked the raid bosses.

Then everyone, every class, is a Tank, so long as you put in enough iterations to get the job done. Same thing with Healing and DPS as well, since with sufficient RNG you don’t need to Heal that much (if at all) and with sufficient RNG even an Enrage timer won’t matter and slow/low DPS can still kill the boss…

Everyone is everything.

@Darkgrudge-maelstrom

Yep

Kiting and Tanking are not the same thing and you know it. If you tell someone to Kite something, you know you’re not asking them to stand there and eat hits to the face, and likewise if you tell someone to Tank something, you know you’re not asking them to run away trying to never get hit in the face.

This is just bad lying now.

[Darkgrudge-maelstrom]

@Fasc-atiesh

Kiting and Tanking are not the same thing and you know it. If you tell someone to Kite something, you know you’re not asking them to stand there and eat hits to the face, and likewise if you tell someone to Tank something, you know you’re not asking them to run away trying to never get hit in the face.

This is just bad lying now.

Lol, I still fully disagree with you – the role of the tank is ONLY to keep threat and to not die. A kiting hunter is still a tank in that situation. Sorry that I’m right.

@Fasc-atiesh

Then everyone, every class, is a Tank, so long as you put in enough iterations to get the job done. Same thing with Healing and DPS as well, since with sufficient RNG you don’t need to Heal that much (if at all) and with sufficient RNG even an Enrage timer won’t matter and slow/low DPS can still kill the boss…

Everyone is everything.

Yep, if ANY class can literally hold threat and not die, it was the tank role for that encounter. That’s it. Whether that class has active tanking skills/talents is immaterial.

I’ll take it one step further just because I know it’ll annoy you – a 70 mage boosting lowbies through SM or SP is also a tank in that run. It kept threat and didn’t die. That’s literally a tank role.

@Fasc-atiesh

So the Shaman is still not a Tank since he died a lot.

Did the raid complete the boss encounters while the Shaman took the majority of the damage?

[Kigelz-ashkandi]

this made the TBC Andies really mad.

[Fasc-atiesh]

@Darkgrudge-maelstrom

Lol, I still fully disagree with you – the roll of the tank is ONLY to keep threat and to not die. A kiting hunter is still a tank in that situation. Sorry that I’m right.

So everyone is everything.

“LF1M Heroic Arc, need Tank!”
“Priest here…”
“Got a Tank, let’s go!”

PS - A Tank’s job also includes facing, movement, and holding the mob still. You can’t do that while Kiting, which isn’t Tanking.

@Darkgrudge-maelstrom

Yep, if ANY class can literally hold threat and not die, it was the tank role for that encounter. That’s it. Whether that class has active tanking skills/talents is immaterial.

No no no, YOU said:

@Darkgrudge-maelstrom

Doesn’t matter how many times it took for RNG to line up to accomplish that.

So, it doesn’t matter what encounter we’re talking about, whether it is Kil’jaeden at the end of Sunwell or VanCleef in Deadmines, the only standard is whether or not the boss died. It doesn’t matter how many times it took for RNG to line up to accomplish that. RNG includes every melee swing, every resist, every favorable timer, etc.

So long as there is a 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 chance (or smaller) of success with your composition, anything goes and you’re doing the job of Tank, Healer, and/or DPS.

@Darkgrudge-maelstrom

Did the raid complete the boss encounters while the Shaman took the majority of the damage?

Protection Paladin in the group says “No”

EDIT: This is a new requirement you’ve brought up “majority of the damage” which even I don’t require. A Rogue with 100% Dodge/Miss/Parry that can hold aggro is Tanking, but also taking very very little damage.

[Darkgrudge-maelstrom]

@Fasc-atiesh

PS - A Tank’s job also includes facing, movement, and holding the mob still. You can’t do that while Kiting, which isn’t Tanking.

No it doesn’t. That’s literally not the job. The job is holding threat and not dying. Nothing else.

[Darkgrudge-maelstrom]

@Fasc-atiesh

So, it doesn’t matter what encounter we’re talking about, whether it is Kil’jaeden at the end of Sunwell or VanCleef in Deadmines, the only standard is whether or not the boss died. It doesn’t matter how many times it took for RNG to line up to accomplish that. RNG includes every melee swing, every resist, every favorable timer, etc.

So long as there is a 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 chance (or smaller) of success with your composition, anything goes and you’re doing the job of Tank, Healer, and/or DPS.

That is true. It doesn’t matter. If you accomplish it with RNG, it doesn’t matter, that player tanked regardless of what it took to do it.

[Fasc-atiesh]

Bwahahahahaha

If you think a Tank’s job doesn’t include positioning the mobs or boss correctly, then you really have no idea how Tanking works in the slightest, least of all in any content that matters.

[Darkgrudge-maelstrom]

@Fasc-atiesh

EDIT: This is a new requirement you’ve brought up “majority of the damage” which even I don’t require. A Rogue with 100% Dodge/Miss/Parry that can hold aggro is Tanking, but also taking very very little damage.

My point is that the Shaman was the MT role in those videos, clearly. Whether you choose to accept it or not doesn’t matter at all.

[Fasc-atiesh]

Given you think anyone can be anything with sufficient RNG… this means nothing.

[Darkgrudge-maelstrom]

@Fasc-atiesh

Bwahahahahaha

If you think a Tank’s job doesn’t include positioning the mobs or boss correctly, then you really have no idea how Tanking works in the slightest, least of all in any content that matters.

At least I’m not the one arguing that the Shaman didn’t tank Kara in the video above…

(Bwahahahaha)

[Wooppee-mankrik]

If the shaman didn’t tank those bosses, then they did it with no tank. Equally cool and rarely seen!

[Darkgrudge-maelstrom]

@Fasc-atiesh

Given you think anyone can be anything with sufficient RNG… this means nothing.

Still not sure how you can even argue against it…anyone who literally tanked an encounter successfully, with RNG or not, was the tank for that encounter.

[Oriendaria-pagle]

to be fair, yes, you DO need to min/max this. But the other side of it is that it isn’t optimal, or conventional.

[Fasc-atiesh]

@Wooppee-mankrik

If the shaman didn’t tank those bosses, then they did it with no tank.

Fair enough.

@Darkgrudge-maelstrom

Still not sure how you can even argue against it…anyone who literally tanked an encounter successfully, with RNG or not, was the tank for that encounter.

Tautologies are fun!