Its multiplicative. And no. Its usually something like bop/bubble/iceblock/dispersipn/turtle for those major damage instances. Or even just let a mage soak and cauterize with alter time. Stuff like that.
I dont see elemenral wardinf having amy signifcant impact at 6% all damage vs 4% magic damage in pve. Not in raid. Maybe there is a very very very niche situation but i cannot think of one.
Right, but they pinched the leech talent, alongside SWG, alongside Astral alongside etc etc.
Why else would they pinch 1% here, 2s off that, 5% off this if the overall package wasnât overbudgeted
Is this that big a deal tho? We have so much better/interesting thoroput talents
Stuff like fire and ice and the crit on nature are just flavor imo.
Not for pve reasons. Swg is probably a pve thing⌠the rest has negligble impact. You arent going to see eleâs cheese boss mechanics because of a +/- few percent of leach
You think those are soley pvp tweaks?
I donât mean to imply like Ele is going to warp raid mechanics. Just sorta piggy backing off what ppl that do do the world first plunges are saying alongside just trying to be objective.
Not saying what Max says is gospel but the Shaman Package is very strong and there are syngeries that only shaman are capable of with evoker for example that they were describing.
It feels extremely targetted towards pvp. Not saying it wont affect pve at all but its such a small alteration from a raid standpoint i cant imagine it even registering to anything but min/maxers at the world first level
Windfury totem is goung to have 100000x more impact on pve than any defensive or combination of defensives ele/enh or resto have
Canât say I agree personally.
PvP testing is always at the tail end of everything and that sort of fine tuning is usually done via PvP coefficient mods.
Early Alpha numbers, i imagine, are influenced by vision or over arching direction of specs at this point of development.
I just donât see them plucking at trees like a bonsai by 1% because of PvP implications.
Just seems way more realistic that they looked at talent options on a class they finally got to put under the scope and thought they were a little overzealous giving shaman the attention they deserved finally.
I agree but can anyone name a single specific pve encounter those changes would affect?
Poison cleanse totem will have a bigger pve impact.
You keep zeroing in on one thing when im talking about overall power budgets
The shaman trees are incredible and finally the class is modernize as they obviously started focusing on Ele at least last expac experimenting with fulmination.
Occamâs razor here.
I wish pvp was so finely tuned that they were so surgical that 2s off astral/30 off swg etc was specifically done with PvP intent
its not just about windfury or PCT. Its both on top of skin/tranq, mana spring, etc.
And while personal mitigation might not be huge in raiding, its a big deal in M+ which, imo, sees a lot more competitive tuning than raids (MDI, the wait on survival/destro nerfs cus ppl cant push as hard, so on)
Okay but these other totems are bigger impacts on that budget imo.
Poison cleanse totem trivializes any Poison based dot. Iirc thr night fae dungeon has mobs that you have to interrupt or they pit giant Poison dot on the group that does massive damagr. Nah just drop poison cleanse and itll trivialize that whole pull
The zandalari loa dungeon too.
Mists of tirna scythe and de other side.
I mean would you rather them nerf our core utility?
I donât really get the back forth, are you saying the first tune pass they did on our trees was a PvP nerf pass?
Or that none of that stuff matters in PvE and they arbitrarily felt like nerfing stuff just because. (which im leaning to)
It just makes more sense to me that holistically they felt there was too much for âFreeâ defensively and they adjusted left.
Like legit every talent we have except for maybe the totem cdr has huge value per point
I wpuld rather them nerf poison cleanse totem than elemenral warding.
Ele needs legitimate survivability. -6% damage taken was an excellent talent i was excited to have. -4% magic damage is stinky
These nerfs are so stupid.
They go and give Evokers a spiritwalkerâs grace on steroids, with a dash and charges, on top of a racial thatâs 1.5 mins and has 2 CC baseline racials, on top of a movement speed steroid CD, and a better lifegrip, with a selfheal that dwarfs Healing Wave.
But shaman is the problem? Mages and Survival hunters are literal tanks. Anyone doing Season 4 M+, Iron Docks/Kharazan knows how busted outright immunities are again.
Nope, canât have hybrids having the mobility or defensive tools of their pure overlords. Must keep that mage/rogue/hunter trinity pristine.
The nerf to Gust of Wind is so unwarranted. Shamans had it all throughout legion, and it was never a problem. And instead of a 5 sec bump, they literally doubled the CD, what the hell.
yea I know, im not happy bout the nerfs or anything.
Overjoyed at everything overall tho.
They can also nerf the leech talent as much as they want. Its a miserable useless waste of points
Yea idk in what world that talent would be appealing.
I just knew something was gonna happen, like
6% and 5% redux baseline, 3s flameshock that amps healing/cost, 2 1min sprints on top of thunderous paws
Like everything save for 2 talents were absolutely incredible per point in every way and for the most part still are
They took the easy way out. People complained about shamans because they had plenty of expansion and new tools acquired. Instead of expanding that to other terrible trees like Druid, DK, Priest, they went and handicapped shaman to their level.
Smallest riot ever for the absolutely worst PVE ability on that row.
In a M+ environment, I disagree. I will most likely be avoiding the windfury totem talent if I can for M+.
I would 100% rather have stronger defensives.
Every single m+ boss, many m+ dungeon pulls.
My astral shift is nearly on cd non stop during m+.
We all would. But you cannot make an argument that any of these nerfs are meaninful in pve.
Changing elemental warding from physical to magic damage? Thats nothing. You dont take physical damage in pve right? Its fire or nature or some form of magic. Unless you are getting consistently meleeâd by mobs your tank isnt picking up?
Changing the duration of astral shift? Also nonsense in pve.
Stop standing in fire.
I wish all damage was avoidable in m+.
I also disagree in m+.
I mean. In todays higher m+ this can definitely happen with some of the larger pulls. Its not uncommon for a stray to turn its attention for a moment to a dps.
I am often hitting it pre-emptively. âI dont know if the 20 mobs the tank pulled will have that one that diverts its attention, but I want have it it running already for possible damage incommingâ