The bit I quoted was the response to this question: “Did the jailer in The Maw see the Legion as a threat which is why Sylvanas worked with Varian?” Vol’jin isn’t mentioned at all.
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I was referencing this bit:
Working with Varian was a long term strategy in order to get Warchief - had to make allies but now we’re seeing the fruition of that.
The word for word bit says it’s “a” strategy, but implies that she’s deliberately using that strategy.
The thing is, you actually wouldn’t. Not here on the story forum, anyway. I can count the number of posters who were pro-Burning on one hand, and most of the Horde posters who are getting attacked for it now are posters who argued against them from the start.
Yet they still get attacked. Usually personally, which is the real deal breaker as far as this comparison goes. Making a joke about a fictional race in a video game =/= calling someone IRL “disgusting” or insisting that they deserve to be punished for the faction’s wrongdoings.
Those making personal attacks are in the minority too of course. They’re just very, very vocal and in nearly every single thread.
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You realize that not only Horde players make jokes about Teldrassil? On EU forums there are Alliance posters that made fun of nelves because of it.
This is not a faction issue, some players just enjoy dark humor or mocking stuff like that. It might look douchy but in the end nelves don’t exist, they’re fictional race.
I have to also read lots of comments about players wanting to wipe out Amani completely, and I think that this is douchy because they went through a lot already and they deserve some better treatment.
You will eventually meet people that will say stuff that will ruffle your feathers, but the generalisation that the likes of Liira does is very dangerous.
Especially when Horde players are not a monolith. Blizzard can’t decide if they want to cater to WC3 fans or fans from WC1-2 iteration of Horde with all the edgy and dark aspects.
I had to see people argue about interpreation of what faction is about many times already.
Each player is individual and will have different understanding of the faction he plays.
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Even the Dark Iron Player character makes fun of Teldrassil.
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Yeah … its only very recently that Troll’s have started seeing a shift in how Blizz treats them. And by recently, I mean BfA … and sadly that treatment only as far as the Horde Troll factions themselves. And even then, Rokhan needs some long overdue attention before I’ll be comfortable with even their current track. The Darkspear are still in a rough spot. Thankfully, Zappyboi and the positive response to at least the Zandalari questing experience seems to have made Blizz more comfortable portraying and writing positive Troll storylines. Which … is a start.
As for the Amani, or the Forest Trolls in general … well lets just say they are the primary reason that if there was a single Alliance “Capital” I would gladly raise to the ground … it would be Aerie Peak. Especially now with “the old god corruption of Azeroth” supposedly being “gone” as of the defeat of N’Zoth. Its time for the Wildhammer to go home and rebuild Grim Batol, Highlands, and Wetlands and let the poor Forest Trolls at least keep their ancestral lands in the Hinterlands. Though my opinions on what to do for them beyond that … are likely a bit odd. 
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It’s hard being a troll fan.
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Try being a Gnome or Dwarf fan. Both literally got no development what so ever until Cata, at which both only got short scenarios and the gnomes even fail at theirs. Then both continue to get 0 development at all until BFA, when the development comes in the form of allied races.
At least trolls were present in every single expansion. Getting development, getting stories told.
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Is having all of your disparate peoples slaughtered because you’re considered to be essentially a disposable race “development?”
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What the fine Goblin said.
I do feel you though, those races don’t have it great either. You won’t find me sneering at Gnomes getting more screen time.
Maybe this response is better fit for NE fans who claim they ‘get nothing’.
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I mean it’s at least screen time. Not the time you wanted for sure, but time none the less. Other races don’t even get that.
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And most of them are thankful for it since they don’t want to know which of their favorite characters Blizzard remembers exist so they can kill them.
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Gotta have characters for them to be favorite. Hell until recent times there were like 3-4 named dwarves of significance and a single gnome. And none of them did squat.
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Can’t tell if you’re talking about trolls, or bringing up goblins.
Because Blizzard basically kills off scores of the buggers just for jokes.
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Well, I don’t want to derail this thread to troll issues as it is such a big and complex subject I would be like that Star Wars reviewer MauLer whose reviews take not minutes but hours.
It was just an example. The point was each person cares more about something different and treats something else as less important and can be even mean about it. And you will always meet people who will say something that upsets you because they don’t care the same way about the subject you do.
So what is the better approach? Insult people, who you want to change their minds of, or elaborate on the subject and make them see your point?
And that rule isn’t even applying to fandoms but RL matters as well. This is why I don’t talk with bully activists no matter the cause they fight for.
Granted, we had ongoing threads for past 2 years about night elf matters, many were indeed elaborative and I agreed with them of course becasue I know how it is to lose something you really care for, but some were outright hysterical.
I really get that they’re upset, I understand that they want to improve certain stuff, I did that myself by writing feedback on PTRs and Beta forums and even reddit for devs to see and hopefully do some changes. I even made an account on that toxic blue bird social media site to post links with elaborative descriptions to send to devs.
But you can still grow tired if you have to talk about the same subject for so long, and additionally be condemned by other players for sticking to playing opposite faction and being blamed for development you never asked for.
And certain behaviors are asking for mean humor.
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I saw this in passing and wanted to chime in;
With all information currently available, the war is at a pause because of war fatigue and an armistice is issued to pursue peace talks. The Alliance doesn’t have the means to issue demands or enforce the consequences of failing to meet those demands, and the Horde isn’t in a position (or have the want) to resume the war.
Given that the second coming of the Scourge is coming, it’s likely it will remain that way for a very long time.
There is a story precedent for the Horde existing post BFA. The Horde didn’t get any love on camera because of how quickly they wanted to escape this god-forsaken expansion (and, partially because of how vocal the playerbase was on how horribly they treated the Horde by taking it on a joyride), but, on paper, it isn’t in extremely dire straits where it can be dealt the deathblow by its opposition.
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Its a mix of both. Ultimately Blizzard wrote themselves into a corner with Teld, and then reinforced it with their deliberate “washing” of anything related to Teldrassil from the Horde BfA story (outside of Saurfang and Thrall, who were away from the main action for the majority). Thus, they played into the collateral damage angle of Sylvanas, and simply used the idea that while the Alliance probably could wipe out the Horde; they are in such a weakened state by the end of 8.2.5 that doing so would likely not be worth the cost.
For most Alliance leaders, with the shifting of the Horde guard to such extremes, they lack sufficient motive to sacrifice what would probably be required to wipe out the Faction. Thus, leaving us in a stalemate to the conflict, with no clear winner … and subsequently leaving neither side in a position to really make demands. Which I can understand why that is frustrating for the Alliance playerbase.
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Yes, this, precisely this is why I use the word war fatigue.
King Pyrrhus in our history paints the situation quite vividly with information from our history (“One more victory and I am undone”, treatises on how destroying oneself to destroy the enemy is in fact a strategic defeat, what have you.).
They could do it, maybe. They might be able to pull it off. But nothing is guaranteed and with the situation not being an extinction-level threat where it’s do-or-die (like the Legion invasion, or the Cataclysm, or the Lich King’s assault on the world, etc), it makes perfect sense for it to enter a cold war situation.
In full, 100% honesty, looking at the board with chess pieces, this is probably the best way to have ended this strategically. There’s no conclusion, but, war in the olden period is bitter, anti-climatic and fought in phases. I’m sure my great, great, great ancestors had some very choice words to describe segments of the Hundred Year War between the English and the French.
I specifically use the word “phases” above, because, unless in the distant future the NPCs in power say “let’s not pick this war back up again and let sleeping dogs lay”, it will very likely be the reason why another faction war happens once the losses of the fourth war are rebuilt, so its story assets for a later time.
TBH, while there is some historical relevancy for such a situation. The idea that in the course of waging war on your enemy, you’ve lost too much to make total victory worth it when you’re finally within arms reach of it. The precedence exists. However, not surprisingly, such real world scenarios aren’t overly satisfying for those forced to lose so much; that expect that finality.
That being said, while I bought that this was he canon reason so many of the Alliance leaders accepted the armistice, due to it not being idealistic, it means that should the balance of power ever shift sufficiently enough to offset the cost … they have little reason to not resume the War. Especially with Anduin, Jaina, Calia, Thrall, and Baine … all conveniently locked away.
Its one of those things that only works if these individuals and PCs are canonically trapped within the Shadowlands for the duration of its story, but … if we are and the Light Cosmology truly is going be at least one of the next Cosmologies we face … there is an opportunity here that by the time we return the Horde will be near the breaking point. Suffering many losses.