I see that as quite the stretch, but I guess. Being “Bound with the Emerald Dream” doesn’t really seem to mean anything for their state of living and death though, Aessina is the one that gives them whisp form.
Want to bet before the expansion is over Aessina, the one Ancient that doesn’t make sense in terms of Wild God established canon, is gonna be revealed as the Mother of Fairies in Ardenweald or something?
And repeating cuz you maybe have missed it due to late edit:
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To add to which, Night Elves, collectively as a race, aren’t bound to the Dream. Night Elf Druids, specifically, are (or at least, were), because of a pact made with Ysera for protecting Nordrassil.
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This is mostly what I have a problem with.
This is so reductive and doesn’t even ring true to what we see in the game. There’s more to Night Elves than those things, and more to trolls than the others.
In fact, Forest Trolls used to live in the forests that Blood Elves now inhabit. Not to mention the Shatterspear.
For me it begins and ends here, at least until we see more information that specifically tells us that there’s more.
Yeah, that’s pretty much what I said.
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Doesn’t explain why the Nightmare can affect nondruid Nelves so easily but sure.
Really all of this could’ve been avoided if Blizzard had made 3 of the 9 Tirnas into evergreen trees and 3 of the 9 Tirnas into jungle zone, or maybe 2 and 2 and made another 2 into idk, a giant flowering cactus to represent “desert oasis” nature.
Thanks to colonialism and Imperialism, most Black peoples the world over, from Afrolatinos to Afrocaribbeans to Africans to etc, all have fairy myths next to what most of the Loa are derived from in Traditional folklore and religion. It was unnecessary to make all of Ardenweald an Unseelie Fairy Forest. Irish myths have spread across the world.
Instead we have an entire zone with Irish Unseelie Fairy Aesthetic, which is the same body of myth Tolkien borrowed from that Blizzard borrowed from that became WoW Elves, ergo frustration
You have to be honest about what are the real world origins of the core mythos of these peoples and if Blizzard borrowed from both in making the zone.
There is no jungle in Ardenweald. Most Troll lore, and the more iconic parts, revolve around Jungle. Darkspear are a Gurubashi Diaspora, and Zandalari is a West African El Dorado Andean And Aztec Temple Twist.
Even Bwonsamdi’s subzone doesn’t feel anything like Nazmir, let alone Zandalari, its a hollow tree with fairy aesthetics.
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This is what pisses me off the most about Ardenweald. If they really wanted to make it seem more Loa-friendly, then they should’ve added midnight jungles and golden temples. Maybe even even a swamp for Bwonsamdi and his dead troll pals. Alternatively, they could’ve just added in the Loa at the last minute, and since people really like Bwonsamdi
Exactly. Why would Bwonsamdi even want to live in a Druidic fairy tree? I’d at least expect a massive Necro city dedicated to him. There’s at least some trollian buildings in it, but they’re in Hakkar’s area I think. It really dosen’t feel like a troll Afterlife, even less Bwonsamdi’s ‘home realm’. It just feels like a hodgepodge of stuff they couldn’t fit into BfA. No wonder Bwonsamdi’s PO’d . He’s upset that the Other Side is all messed up. I don’t blame him either
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Yup. That little bridge from I think Tirna Noch (Tree invaded by the Drust) to the “Dusky Hollow” subzone off to the side could have and SHOULD HAVE been a spooky trolls bridge of what Nazmir once looked like leading to a giant Necropolis City. Have a Small Temple of all the major Loa around.
They could’ve even just had T-Rex spirits around, incoherently. Instead its all ents and fairies and bears and centaurs. Yeah totally screams Troll.
Like it’s just really frustrating to me that the “dark reflection of the Emerald Dream” is just Spooky Irish Unseelie Fairy Forest with zero jungle, and we’re expected to believe this is the perfect afterlife of the Trolls for all of history and time, when their “home” is a Temple in a hollow tree to the side.
But Blizzard admitted they didn’t expect Bwonsamdi to be as loved as he was (which is extremely dumb, on their part) and so they “added things”, if I’m not mistaken. They really don’t get their playerbase on this front it seems.
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Um, and then Tauren and then this and that. It’s not about Azeroth in Ardenwaeld, Ardenwaeld has no exclusive connection to night elves, and no exclusive connection to any race. It’s a blue forest with giant trees, in a nocturnal atmosphere, to serve as a counterpart to the dream. The dream is the starting point and not the night elf areas. The Night elf build their area as a “mirror” to the Dream, yeah, thats the only paralell. But same here, the starting point is the dream.
Bwonsamdi should be unrelated to Ardenweald outside of helping save night elf souls. He’s older than the troll race and has his own realm. Or had. With the inclusion of Night-Elven Ardenweald, Bwonsamdi’s realm was stated to be a subsection of Night-Elven Ardenweald, and even looks like it with his Night-Elven faerie tree home.
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its not an "night elf"Realm, Dreadmoore.
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Which is something I actually agree with. I think this is a different conversion with the point I was making, but I completely understand the idea that they’re pushing other themes to the side in favor of Night Elven themes.
However, as I said, this is a different conversation.
Yes. The Irish Fairy zone was clearly made entirely, utterly, and exclusively for the Greco-Nordic-Korean-Japanese Elves.
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It’s something that the WOW-community also likes very much in most cases. Ardenwaeld is celebrated for its design, so from a purely business point of view, there is no reason to say, “This is frustrating now”.
Ho, so no Valeera? Indeed a “once upon a time” Belf character -in a way, I feel annoyed. Why is it that Alliance spies are ALWAYS either Sin´dorei or Goblins? This doesn´t help to combat the usual “QQQQ Belves shouldn´t be Hurde!!” sentiment of the antis.
I´m happy most of the Troll stuff was dealt with competence.
We’re in this Horde together. The antis can’t take that away from us. Don’t worry.
A blue forest with giant trees in perma nocturnal atmosphere IS the basic descirption of Ashenvale -a Nelf affiliated area-. Maybe art devs should take into account how graphics send messages to the playerbase population and how one supposed “neutral” area can be perceived as one thing or the other depending on the way stuff looks.
Ardenweald is basically a Nelf inspired area down to a T, just not officially cause devs pretend people is blind and can´t make correlations based on aesthetics or something.
Also, Tauren druid stuff = Nelf one (for the detriment of the poor Tauren), so Ahmanét was totes right in manifesting her discontent over the troll druid aesthetics being grossly ignored in druid afterlife, dude.
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Ardenwaeld is no “druid” afterlive. Its for the nature itself. I don’t see any nightelfbuildings either. So, should i now complain about it?
But the reason for this is not because of night elves. Why Ashenvale and Ardenwaeld have this in common is more likely due to a circumstance that has nothing to do with night elves or the Winter Queen. It’s the only instance that connects the two.
Elune blessed the Ashenvale Forest with a kind of eternal “night”.
The Ardenwaeld is the same. Elune have tieds toward the Winterqueen.
But the constant here is Elune.
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They’re dark/night/moon elves with fae-themed centaurs centered around a giant tree and the Emerald Dream with Moon Goddess pseudoWiccan overtones. Most of the Night Elf mythos borrows on Western European and Tokien-derived dark elf and seelie/unseelie fairy myth. Surely you aren’t trying to deny that?
Which is why I said:
Given that so far, Ardenweald is “mysteriously” tied to the Night Warrior, which is tied to Elune, which now apparently an inter-galactic goddess worshipped by various worlds, and on top of that the realm is as per Blizzard tied to the Emerald Dream (which the Night Elves have a functional in-game monopoly over, or else where do you see Tauren huts or Troll temples in the Dreamgrove? why are there only Cenarius’s children and fairy dragons in the Dreamway?), ON TOP OF the fact that the “Apotheosis of Ysera” via Elune apparently brought her to Ardenweald, nah this is a whole lie.
Most Trolls have is “ah yes, if you go past the Drust tree, and you cross another magical tree bridge that is not very troll-like, and you follow the fairy path deeper into the dead magic fairy tree, you’ll find a Troll entrance to an instance! congrats! this is the eternal troll afterlife!”
Yeah sure it’s super pretty! It’s just dishonest to pretend that Night Elves, as they are characterized in-game, are not based in part on the same body of myth and aesthetic that Ardenweald is based off of, and that’s why people are making “Ardenweald is Night Elf centric” observations.
yup
yup
Do you see how “magical blue-purple skinned people living in trees with gardens and magical water with an intimate relation to nature” is night elf
Because both Night Elves, the Emerald Dream, and Ardenweald are all concepts borrowed from real life Irish-derived Fairy myths with some Tolkien-derived Varda overtones lol
Welcome to post-Tokien Western “High” Fantasy
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He really should be. I’m glad his boss isn’t a damn Fairy Queen, because to me, Loa should be ruling over other Loa. It seems to me that Ardenweald was the only zone they could really fit him into, and it’s really unfortunate. The Other Side should’ve been it’s own zone not a tiny part of a bigger one. Hell, they could even expand on it more in 9.1/.2 like Legion does with Argus.
With Mueh’zala in Bad Troll Jail, Bwonsamdi should also be free to do whatever he please in his realm too. There could be a smaller ‘sub Covenant’ too, that could let you gain reputation with him and maybe troll-themed armor? I know I’m asking for more troll gear after Zandalar, but it would be interesting to see. And maybe Sylvanas will throw a fit and decide to aim her Mawsworn at his realm, and there’s a small Questline/event to get them out?
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Literally the other Tirnas should’ve simply been Jungles or savannah-acacia trees. That would’ve “fixed” and provided a space for Orc and Troll and Tauren afterlife. A third deciduous forest, a third jungle, a third plains/savanna.
I love Ardenweald, gonna take my Kul Tiran Druid there. But I also wanted to take my Zandalari Shaman there, but honestly, it’s depressing.
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