Sometimes one has the feeling, especially as a European, that everything that is European is badly talked about or criticised by others, because it is “only” European, as in this case, with the Irish legends.
Sorry, Ariel, quote the wrong person 
Ashenvale has day time dude
I’m distantly Irish down my white side, but my family managed to sustain “true to its roots” Irish fairy myths via family oral folklore over the past century and a half of mixing with non-Irish people in Colombia, so this statement falls flat. I grew up on the myths that Ardenweald is based off of, in part.
I am also Afro-indigenous however, which I see in Troll myths and Tauren myths. And I do NOT see them represented in the “intergalactic interdimensional nature afterlife”, when in theory, the in-game Loa of Grave/Death/whatever is FROM THIS REALM. There’s not even a dinosaur of any sort at any point throughout questing! Nor a Tauren-esque eagle.
So you can see how frustrating it is to have the “Irish myth” based stuff (whether straight from the Irish or derivative via Tolkien) be used and see and engaged with more frequently than the African and Amerindigenous myth stuff, yes?
You can see how this could’ve been an opportunity to give depth to Tauren and Troll in-game mythos and they chose not to, yes?
Imagine if they had gone with the Winter Queen but every day she appeared with her “Unseelie Queen” nelf-esque model, another day she’s a Spooky Tauren Woman Chieftan, another day she’s a GIANT Troll Woman fully dressed in Gold? Imagine how cool that would’ve been to USE the diversity of the lore and represent that in Ardenweald.
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This does not change the blessing of Elune on the Ashenvale.
In the Shadowlands, a new “god species” is being introduced, which is related to the Conveants. It would be a strange thing to have this changing one, and again: Azeroth doesn’t play a role in Ardenweald, in all of the Shadowlands, Azeroth is irrelevant, but still, why would the Winter Queen take the form of tauren, the form of trolls, or night elves?
And no, she’s not a night elf.
So no, that would be not “awesome”, it would be atleast weird.Ardenwaeld has nothing to do with Azeroth; the sooner this is understood, the more the differences will become apparent. Azeroth has influence from the same divine being as Ardenwaeld has.
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do you not see how contradictory this is lol central night elf goddess is also central to Nature Afterlife
Nor is Cenarius! And yet
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Ardenweald is distinctly the only Shadowlands zone we visit which is intrinsically linked to Azeroth: It bears a Tyrna for each World Tree Azeroth had.
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Is this confirmed? Also there’s 10 tirnas, and if we include the fact De Other Side is in what is a hollowed tree of equal size, 11 original Tirna Trees
But if we include the Great Trees of Azeroth + The Worgen Trees, iirc when I was writing out a theory it came out to 11
But yeah regardless, the Elune connection and the Emerald Nightmare - Tirna Noch connection makes evident the Azerothian importance (and the Night Elf importance therein, being the Speical People of Elune on Azeroth and also the material cause of the Nightmare that corrupted the Drust)
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It was my understanding that the 11th Tirna was for the one that Illgynoth was hiding out in, in the Emerald Dream. Something happened and it was destroyed in Azeroth, but still exists in the Dream.
Bear in mind, I care almost nothing for Night Elves and their lore. What I heard about Illgynoth’s tree may well be wrong.
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The following Words are not mine, they are from Faranoth:
Baalsamel: "You may not known a lot about east Asain cultures to comment that night elves origins are strictly European.
Wow portrays them in many ways as such, but many races in WoW do not have single origins. Night elven architecture is Chinese-Japanese, their religion is Greek-Chinese, they have rice cakes in their festivals like East Asians and the night Warrior concept draws on that of Hindu mythology (Kali) .
I think, it is being reductivte. The trolls themselves are mixes of Mayan-Aztec to African or Caribbean heritage. To reduce a race to a particular real life culture is ridiculous
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Wait are you in Pyro’s Discord? Because otherwise someone else came up with the same theory I did which is cool lol
So officially World Trees-wise theres:
- Nordrassil
- Teldrassil
- Andrassil/Vordrassil
- Shaladrassil
- Un’goro Dream Tree
All of which are derived from
- G’Hanir, the “First Tree” of the Emerald Dream
Great Trees, dervied from Nordrassil are:
- Bough Shadow, Ashenvale
- Dream Bough, Feralas
- Great Tree, Crystalsong Forest
- Seradane, HInterlands
- Twilight Grove, Duskwood
Important trees that are suspiciously important otherwise:
- Thas’alah, the Mother Tree of Eversong Woods, changed by the Sunwell
- Heart of Fear, which I believe was the “Mother Tree” of the Kypari trees, corrupted by the Sha/Y’shaarj
- Tal’doren, the Mother Tree of Blackwald, aka Daral’nir of the Emerald Dream, which has calming effects
- Gol Inath, the Mother Tree of the Crimson Forest of Drustvar, which houses a portal to the Dream
- Maldraz in Blasted Lands, described as a “Great Tree” of the Tainted Forest
- Talonbranch Glade, which the Nelf Worgen “pack” there say has always been there
Ardenweald has:
- Tirna Achiad, the Heart of the Forest, the First Tree of Ardenweald
- Tirna Eas, the Banks of Life, Grove of Glitterfall Basin
- Tirna Glayn, the Dreamshrine Basin, Grove Hibernal Hollow
- Tirna Rowen, the Shrouded Mire, Grove of Memory, Grove of Heartswood Grove
- Tirna Vaal, Grove of the Tranquil Pools
- Tirna Scithe, Grove of Mists
- Tirna Fenn, Grove of Dreamsong Fenn
- Tirna Kaithe, Grove of Claw’s Edge
- Tirna Marwol, Grove of the Darkreach
- Tirna Noch (Drust), The Fallen Tree
- Dusky Grotto (possibly a hollowed out Tirna tree), which contains The Necropolis of the Other Side
Narrowing down the list, excluding Nordrassil Derivatives, we arrive at:
- G’Hanir, the “First Tree” of the Emerald Dream
- Nordrassil
- Teldrassil
- Andrassil/Vordrassil
- Shaladrassil
- Thas’alah, the Mother Tree of Eversong Woods, changed by the Sunwell
- Heart of Fear, which I believe was the “Mother Tree” of the Kypari trees, corrupted by the Sha/Y’shaarj
- Tal’doren, the Mother Tree of Blackwald, aka Daral’nir of the Emerald Dream, which has calming effects
- Gol Inath, the Mother Tree of the Crimson Forest of Drustvar, which houses a portal to the Dream
- Maldraz in Blasted Lands, described as a “Great Tree” of the Tainted Forest
- The Necropolis of Nazmir, given that the souls that go into the Nazmir Necropolis go to the Dusky Grotto’s Other Side, so one can maybe possibly associate a “Mother Tree” of Nazmir having once been there
The only associations that I speculate are “safe” are G’Hanir and Tirna Achiad, and likewise the Drusky Grotto Necropolis and the Nazmir Necropolis. The rest is up in the air.
I actually have researched this extensively as part of my Honors Thesis in undergrad, am aware, and yes while these motifs exist within the in-game lore, the concept of “Dark Elves in an Eternal Night Forest with a Moon Goddess and Magical Animals” and the concept of “Dark Fairies in an Eternal Night Forest where a Moon Goddess has done things with Magical Animals” are the same concept. The Night Elves also have a uniquely profound in-game lore with the Dream and Elune, both of which relate to Ardenweald.
- WoW Elves borrow heavily from Tolkien Elves. We know this.
- Tolkien borrowed from IRL Fairy Myth.
- Ardenweald borrows from IRL Fairy Myth.
- This association exists.
- Ardenweald is supposed to be the universe, intergalactic, interdimensional Nature Afterlife
- Yet all the animals are Deciduous Forest Animals with Western European Fairies
- Yet there is no Jungle, or Plains, or other types of natural ecosystems, or Dinosaurs, or other animals.
- Yet this is the sole afterlife for Azerothian Trolls, and the home of Bwonsamdi such that he has his own section of it, that does not resemble any of his aesthetics
You cannot sincerely say you do not see why people who love Troll Lore (and Tauren, and Orc) are not frustrated with the area around Bwonsamdi and the aesthetics of Ardenweald in general.
All we are saying is we wish Actual In-Game Troll Aesthetics and Tauren Aesthetics were used and elevated the same way Night Elf’s IRL Cultural Roots were re-imagined.
Imagine of a part of Ardenweald was derived off the Aztec, or Mayan, or Incan afterlife! Imagine if a part of Ardenweald was derived off of the Yoruba, or Igbo, or Egyptian, or Congo, or etc afterlives!
edit:
also reminder “city of gold” myths are rooted in Andean Indigenous myths which I am, not everything “indigenous” of the Trolls is Mayan and Aztec lol
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No. I’m not in any WoW discord atm beside’s a guildie’s.
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wow someone had the same idea as me nice :'D
Sure dear, the zone dedicated to the Night Warrior + Elune + Emeral Dream tones is NO druid zone.
Are you even aware THIS is the complain some players have regarding the zone? How anything that isn´t Nelf / Nelf druid inspired feels like an afterthough. I know I won´t waste my time on the zone with any of my characters unless the Covenant ability is OP for their class/spec combo, cause if I wanted to play Alliance Nelf aesthetics then I would roll one.
Narrative doesn´t work that way dude. Nelves were first before the Winter Queen BS, ergo the aesthetics and the graphic composition defers to them first, anything else second.
The Nelves God, but sure, no “Nelf inspired” zone 
The problem is not the european myth aesthetic per se; the problem is white people writting and designing the stuff deliberately cutting other content that takes inspiration from non European myths and pretending we players are stupid enough not to realize they did it.
If anything you too should feel a little annoyed, cause your heritage that belongs to your people nowadays is treated like generic crap we all should feel related to or something.
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It isn’t even a white people issue. Devs are doing a kneejerk reaction because night elf players feel they are the great victims of BFA, so they’re designing an entire zone to fit only their aesthetics and lore. Any fans of other race’s druids be damned.
Need I remind everyone that nelves’ original afterlife was literally the stars / never leaving Azeroth in general? They either get turned into stars or whisps. An entire Shadowland was retconned for them.
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Yeah, that’s fair. Especially when lying suits his goal more. The Blizzard author clearly gets that.
Nah don’t think this is the case. During an early interview they admit they hadn’t planned to include Bwonsamdi at all in Ardenweald but since everyone loved him they threw him in.
Ardenweald sans Bwonsamdi was the plan from the onset, which is even worse.
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Should I pull the customization card or that would be of too much poor taste from my part, Treng? 
Now, in regards to your answer, I DO think is a white people issue when devs have been taking deference to Cenarion Circle and muh Nelves FOR YEARS when confronted with “depiction of nature oriented organization”. Compare Earthen Ring and CC in Cata, one gets so pathetically niche portrayal it´s literally bland generic with no clear aesthetic direction; the other is literally Nelf & Friends (DK TRoll druids were depiction wise irrelevant. It took Blizz the implementation of the Zandalari to give DK Trolls their own druidic flavor proper).
And let´s not even talk about Legion and another 3 zones dedicated EXCLUSIVELY to Nelf issues past, present and future (Aszuna, Val´shara and Suramar).
Nature themes being treated as Nelf first, everybody else after is no post BfA issue, it has been an issue since Vanilla (I mean Tauren druids, nuff said).
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I mean you’re right about nelves being white people or whatever, but I’m saying “a desire for white people stuff on Blizzard’s part” isn’t what’s motivating this decision: it’s wanting to appease the selfish, greedy nelf playerbase.
The new customizations are proof enough of that. Do you really think that after “ZANDALAR FOREVER” they would really risk doing white people stuff if their fans weren’t so heavily clamoring specifically for night elf stuff?
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List of Racial-Class histories that get the short end of the stick regularly:
- Forsaken Shadow Priests vis-a-vis Cult of the Forgotten Shadow (Natalie Seline resurrect with a Human model for the love of God lmao, instead of soft retcon’ing it so that the Forsaken are majority Shadow-centric religion, they soft retcon’d it so that the Cult of the Forgotten Shadow died out apparently very recently, completely dumb, the NPC line of “embrace the shadow” means nothing I guess)
- Earthen Ring development in general (Orcs? Tauren? no? elements? ancestors? they’ve been talking to the dead for their whole history and they also know nothing? why? how?)
- Tauren Druid/Priest Lore (WELL ACK SHOE A LEE, Cenarius loved Nelves first and foremost
, also Elune is getting yet more development in yet another expansion, but Musha/Anshe/Earthmother are gimmicks) - Troll Druid Lore (we literally have in-game items that demonstrate Trolls have always known about Elune and even worshipped her originally, we literally have a DEATH LOA, yet are getting a hole in a tree in Ardenweald)
- Elven Magic users, both the re-integrated Highborne and the High/Blood Elves, in general (you expect me to believe Thalyssra, First Arcanist for 10000 years, wouldn’t be able to pick apart Jaina’s floating arcane canon boat? c’mon now)
- etc
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I think they don´t care too much as usual, and too that they double down in their poor and narrowminded perception of the races (I mean, look at Worgen with basically 0 customization of their own, Belves getting only jewerly cause they´re the pretty but idiotic elves, etc.). They just love to go back to their overused formulas of always, and the Teldrassil issue is just another excuse to double down in their “nature is only Nelf + the rest” graphic and narrative messages.
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