WoW elves are not Tolkien elves. High elves and blood elves are, and even they do not hold the same themes. Again, I think you are being very reductive with this, that you are not actually addressing the individual points about the cultures of WoW races.
You are also bringing up Ardenweald - but that’s my point- Ardenweald is not night elven because it diverges a lot from night elven themes. There are no saber cats, the primary night elven mounts. I do not see any owls. Only the colors are similar. Ardenweald is not like night elven or troll aesthetics.
With regard to the ecosystem, Ardenweald is a winter scape in a realm of death. That was the foundation for temperate vegetation and wildlife, and then the implied connection to fauns and whatever. There are definitely swamps and bogs though.
But my point is Ardenweald is not connected to night elven culture or themes, it just has a passing resemblance which immediately falls apart when you look closer.
And your implication that night elves are based on European mythology is flat-out wrong, when they draw equally from East Asian traditions and culture, and even aesthetics, as deciduous forests are quite common there as well.
Tldr, Ardenweald is mostly based on European myths but night elves as a people are not and to claim Ardenweald as a night elven zone based on color of the zone is … strange. I also don’t want night elves to be primarily affiliated to it because night elven culture is more than that garbage.
There really aren’t lmao watch any of the playthroughs or exploration videos
The most “swamp” are the “tranqui pools” which are more miniature lakes
In what world is Night Elf Druidry or Night Elf Elune Worship “equally” European and East Asian?! That is a GALACTIC reach.
This is false, and a reach. Malfurion is a Green Man, “Druid”, talks to a magical White stag in a magical “Dream” Forest, Tyrande is Moon Priestess with all her other priestesses in togas, in a giant Grecoroman Temple, worshipping a Moon Goddess who regularly uses modern neopagan or older european lunar motifs (e.g. the Triple Goddess symbol), they live in a magical dark forest in tree houses (literally functionally copied from Lothlorien, Ghostlands is Mirkwood, Quel’thalas otherwise is Rivendell). They’re ELVES for crying out loud.
The only “clearly” East Asian thing visible in “typical Night Elf architecture” are the Moonwells with the arches, or the arches that sometimes are present when entering a tree house.
The audacity to pretend Night Elves are equally East Asian and European is absolutely ridiculous. That’s like saying that Zandalari/Troll otherwise culture as portrayed in game is equally Amerindigenous and West African and Caribbean. Which they aren’t, as an Afroindigenous man who is literally initiated in Voodoo!!!
These races would be in therms of arcane set up in this order.
I would imagine Thalysra as a more than 10,000 year old highborn being much more powerful than she is depicted ingame. Well, she’s no Elisandre, but it’s still pity.
@Baalsamel I again feel like you are putting reductive points based on ignorance of both night elves and East Asian cultures.
It’s a winter scape, not snow scape. Winter is more than snow. Or are confusing it for European, which this clearly shows it isn’t? The Winter Queen rules there, and Ardenweald is described as the autumn and winter of the cycle of life where the Emerald Dream isn’t.
I have, and that’s why I’m saying there are swamps. Or atleast, the equivalent in a death forest.
No, I think you are the one reaching here using false equivalents and not even beginning to touch on the actual night elf aspects, rather than the image of them in your head based on Tolkien’s works, which mind you, also drew inspiration from other cultures. Many of the points you raised, you also fail to realise that other cultures share those themes besides the Europeans, which is a central flaw in your claims. ·
Night elven architecture since their conceptualization in warcraft 3, is exclusively based on Japanese and Chinese wooden architecture. The only exception is the TotM and subsequent temples that came afterwards in WoW, when they needed to imagine a moon temple for them, and use Greco-Roman styles for inspiration. All their other buildings, not just the moonwells are based on East Asian influences.
Their food is also based on Japanese culture, their main festive items being rice cakes and crab delicacies. They literally make kimchi as a staple, which is popular in Korean food. ·
The Korean references don’t end there. The mounted warrior (priestess on tiger) comes from Korean tales, based on the Siberian tiger that is revered in Korean folklore, as is the bear. ·
The heaviest tie to the night warrior comes from Hindu mythology with the warrior goddess Kali, an aspect of rage who had a normal form but couldn’t defeat her enemies without the rage. She too struggled to control the power. Guess what- the tiger was her mount and she was always depicted with it. The tiger-riding warrior is a common theme in Asian myths, including Vietnamese ones (Ho Thi Que). ·
Druids of night elves are nothing like European (Celtic/Irish?) folklore druids. Those were more like shaman and didn’t have the association with flora/fauna, more than the elements themselves. They resemble more the shamans of WoW, and the shamans of real world resemble more to the druids of WoW. · The most favored weapons of night elves, warglaives and moonglaives are obvious shuriken and real-life glaives. No, you will not find them in European cultures. · Their forest-centric guerilla tactics are heavily inspired by Vietnamese and Japanese tactics, though this I guess is not exclusive to them. I’m sure you will water down these with more reductive (buuuut Tolkiennnnnnnnn, buuut Triple Goddessss) points, but all I’m saying is that there are heavy influences of both European and East Asian folklore in night elf culture. You may choose to ignore it, but as a night elf fan and a residing Asian (Malaysian- lived in Asia my whole life and heavily intune with different customs here) I refuse to do so.
There are places in Europe where winter doesn’t snow either, so sure.
The Tranquil Pools cannot be described as swamps, they do not resemble anything one imagines a swamp to be, let alone Nazmir, so what else are you referring to? The dried up anima pool in the Drust-colonized Tirna Nog?
The interior of Druid dens are absolutely not based on Japanese or Chinese architectural styles, the only place you see that are in the “OG” Druid dens from Vanilla, which are rarely used nowadays and I think the last time we saw one was in the “Archdruid of the Claw” den during Valsharah questing.
The last time a Japanese style lodge was used in-game due to importance of sentinals was what, Cataclysm? Not even in Darkshore was one of the Nelf structures built during warfront gameplay was a lodge in this style.
Meanwhile what we’ve seen in Legion has been architecture much more heavily based on Roman Imperial (both “Western” and “Byzantine”), e.g. Azsuna, e.g. the Azshara cinematic
Food is not part of visual lore lmao
And Zandalar NPCs sell tacos, that doesn’t mean I’m going to say Zandalari are “equally” representing Latin Americans! It’s incoherent to pretend to do.
Yes, that’s one real, visual, represented motif.
Nah. I really don’t think that’s the inspiration for the Night Warrior ritual/concept. She asks for the rage of the Mother Moon, which turns into a dark moon when the ritual is done. Especially given how her clothes turn white during the ritual.
This is clearly a visual motif based on Banshee/Wailing Woman/Ghost Woman In White myths common throughout Europe, especially in juxtaposition to the Banshee Queen Sylvanas.
Celtic Druids had deep associations with animals and creatures of the forest, and in neopagan contemporary practices are deeply associated to what WoW-Druids are.
Because Nelf Druids and Nelf Elune-worship are derivatives of modern neopagan concepts first and foremost.
That’s 2 visual elements. Two. Versus everything else.
Yes because save for the Sentinal Lodges, the weapon forms, and the arch frames of moonwell and druid dens, these are not Visual realities. Kal’dorei selling kimchi and rice cakes is not at the forefront of the gameplay experience.
At the forefront of the gameplay experience, i.e. what one sees first and foremost when engaging with the space and the superficial lore presented via gameplay is:
and the material, visual gameplay experience when engaging with Ardenweald is primarily:
What you are implying is, for example, that because Blood Elves greet with “Salam Ashalanore”, because Blood Elf inns have hookahs and silk drapes, the Silvermoon towers vaguely resemble minarets of mosques, and all the NPCs in Silvermoon sell French-themed food that Blood Elves “equally” represent French Colonial North Africans or something.
It doesn’t. It really doesn’t. By your admission, Blood Elves are more “clearly” Tolkien-esque elves. Does it have MENA Muslim motifs? Of course! But that’s deeper than the superficial inspiration for Blood Elves.
Again, all we’re asking for is that Ardenweald should have more themes visible to and relationally engaged with Troll lore, and Bwonsamdi.
Bwonsamdi should have a visible Necropolis, not a hole in a tree.
Nature includes jungles, and actual swamps, and savannas.
Is there any mention of thralls family? This smaller hut and his “not far” comment to Saurfang in the cinematic are making me think they are not ok. D:
Also, I really wish they would update Org in game - use all the mountainous areas for new building doodads such as these new council homes and expand out the coastal mountain into a dock for ships and zepplins etc.
He does specifically mention them all by name. It actually ties into the reason he took a smaller hut. He was commenting on not wanting to feel too comfortable while away from his family, and missing them a great deal. He’d certainly like to be back with them, but at the moment, he knows the Council work is important.
Also, I would love nothing more than a bigger world with more detail in it. Every capital city should be bigger imo, at least the size of Stormwind.
i’m hoping the new customization options in shadowlands are a sign they will be putting more resources into their world building - i’d love to see a few bloodelf/nightbourne spires up in org, more npc’s roaming around the city and even a grimrail style maghar train from Bilgewater to Xroads/TB via Org!
While living in an eternally midnight forest fits Bwonsamdi extremely well, (I could see him being mostly nocturnal, and hating being around in broad daylight) I just… can’t see him being in a hollowed out tree. The tree should be withered to dust, assuming he’s touched it somehow due to him being a Loa of Death/Graves, NOT still standing and serving as a partital home for him.
(Also, if he’s in a tree, is he kissing someone too? lol)
He should have a massive Warhammer-like Necropolis that’s more akin to a large city (take LA or Vancouver, for example) than a place of worship. It could be connected to a jungle, swamps and even a savanna. It’d have to be a dark one though, kind of like a cold desert, but it would echo the ones in Africa. There should be a place at the very very top of this huge building where his ‘private’ living quarters are, and a throne room complete with skeletal ‘royal guards’ and a throne made of bones and gold, where he greets the souls of the deceased, or even his ‘lovers’
Sadly, we don’t have all this. Bwonsamdi just lives in a fairy forest, seemly shoehorned in
