Yea that’s a waste of talents imo. I never picked those up. Worthless in solo and if you have a good tank and/or manage mana then your don’t need to worry about threat. Only when your blasting off MB constantly with a bad tank will that become useful but then your spending a lot of time reneging or drinking. Yea not worth it at all to me.
I was agreeing to the quoted statement that you CAN get into those tight burst or “spike” windows. However you were muddied the waters when you said this…
This is factually untrue as ALWAYS in this cause would mean we never had burst potential. As you noted we DID have it. But not when you mentioned it here…
Because I know for a fact the Cata had amazing and insane burst. I was doing High Ranking RBG’s and farming Heroic FL to get staff and continued through Heroic Dragon Soul. You needed burst actually for Spine of Deathwing BIG time among other parts of the raid.
Finally, all you manged to do was compare a version of the game over 15 years ago to current version when looking at the priest and say its the same that we cant burst things down quickly and that’s how it always was. That is wrong on some many levels but the best take away is your admitting Shadow is as weak as it was 15+ years ago and yet you think the spec should stay they way it is aside from some slight tweaking. That’s simply astounding lol.
How am I supposed to reconcile these statements? In one breath you tell me that it’s a threat issue and a cap on my damage output, in the other you say the threat talents are worthless.
We’re not talking about some arbitrary burst potential that you personal believe existed for PVP at some point in the game’s history. We’re talking about raid and high tier dungeon dps and how the class issues line up from Vanilla to Legion.
PVP DOES NOT FACTOR INTO THIS CONVERSATION AT ALL. This is why you don’t seem to understand what I am talking about. PVP does not matter. And is not a part of this conversation. This one specifically that I am having.
I think a better takeaway would be that if blizzard had introduced m+ content at any other point in wows history, shadow would have categorically sucked at it.
Hence going backwards not actually fixing the problem.
I’ve also got to add that I don’t think anyone disagrees with this.
The question really is, do we think it’s easier to make an older version of shadow good at modern wow, or make the current version of shadow good at modern wow?
Seems you forget how to read when you get heated and start screaming lol.
Did you not see this part? Here ill Bold it for you.
Edit:
You seem to forget that I don’t do strictly PvP. That is just my mindset. I do plenty of PvE content as well. You could say I am a well rounded priest player as ive done both healing and DPS in both PvE and PvP settings at low and high ranking for each. But you know, just keep thinking i’m only just a PvPer as it seems like you think its helping your case. Btw, its not lol.
It wasn’t screaming. I used caps to reiterate a point. I don’t think you’re only a PVP’er, but everytime I make a point about PVE your response is related to PVP. And everytime you want to use an anecdote about yourself you slip in PVE. It’s just frustrating to talk to you, because if I say something about PVE, you counter with “Well it’s not like that in PVP” or “I used to burst people in PVP with this or that” when you clearly know that wasn’t what I was talking about.
The only real burst / priority shadow had before the dp redesign was the t13 set bonus.
But it was also a game much more built around sustained damage, where sustain was the expected norm and massive burst was the rarity reserved for the likes of shatter combos and Ret wings.
Not having ‘burst’ as we’d consider it now, was not as much of an inherent disadvantage in cata or before as it is now from a pve standpoint.
The reason I can steer the conversion one way or another is that you can accomplish similar things regardless if tis in a PvE or PvP setting. There is not magic hard wall difference. Only when you compare Raid Boss fight vs PvP. But clearing trash in raids, doing 5 mans, solo content etc. Much of what you can do in PvP can be applied in PvE and vice versa.
That has been my argument the entire time. I am saying that Void Form works if just barley in a Raid Boss setting. But outside that it functions poorly just like in PvP. Yet Pre Legion Spriest can function rather well in both PvE and PvP setting when you don’t factor in a Raid Boss fight.
The stance you seem to exhibit is that PvP is an entirely different world with different rules and numbers and interactions. But its really not that different. So when I bring my experience to the conversation it really doesn’t matter if it came from PvP or PvE because they are not that different.
From my pov it feels like the difference is that in pve, overall damage is still likely to take priority. While you can “set something up” in PvP, what you were doing before and after is significantly less relevant.
Shadows rotation has never been particularly malleable, you can push damage from one point in the timeline to another to create burst, but it’s often if not always at significant overall cost.
PVP inherently has different aspects to it. And always has. PVP is absolutely a different world with different interactions and numbers. There are specific talents that exist ONLY for pvp. There is scaling that exists ONLY for pvp. Healers are inherently weaker specifically in PVP. Instanced PVP by its nature is different than pve… not just in form and gameplay, but in numerical values too…
What i mean is that if I can x,y,z on a guy in PvP I can then expect his health bar go to an amount that’s relatively the same as a PvE mob in a 5 man etc. It feels the same. By knowing what I can do, I can then change what I will do based on the players i’m with. If its low geared guys then ill be going more of a dot/rot route because I will get full effect. If its well geared guys, ill change my spec/playstyle and go more bursty and as a result my DPS will actually be higher then if I would to go the cookie cutter build because I am taking advantage of breakpoints like casting SW:D more often because mobs are getting low faster which leads to more DP’s being throw out quickly while im spiking/blasting another mob down.
This is a look into my WoD experience with CoP talent. It may not have been the best in all situations but you can make it work better then other options if you just know the right way to adapt in the given situation.
“What i mean is that if I can x,y,z on a guy in PvP I can then expect his health bar go to an amount that’s relatively the same as a PvE mob in a 5 man etc” This is not true. And hasn’t been ever as far as I know. An enemy in PVP in classic has between 3500-6k health. Most enemies in end tier dungeons have 30k health. Enemies in raids have even more.
I don’t think we’re quite talking about the same thing, but I do see your point on multiple builds etc.
I was on about the difference between lining up burst by doing something that is otherwise sub optimal, and your rotation naturally having moments of burst, which have the flexibility to be moved to be more effective in certain situations.
but also the one that requires the most work out of all of them.