Shadowlands Shaman

there’s still lots of info to come obviously, but what they’ve shared so far for resto is essentially trash.

a shadow chain heal, a stack heal totem, and a talent that everyone skips because it’s bad is coming back as a standard ability. /yawn

also couldn’t care less about frost shock or fire totems being baseline for all shaman. I don’t really pvp, so there’s no use for them.

I don’t think shaman need much in the way of change - it’d just be nice to have something useful like gust of wind come back, or a CD from the covenants that helps fill in for a weakness. We don’t need chain heal 2: shadow boogaloo, or another stack heal…

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I would love for gust of wind to make a comeback.

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With so many classes getting the choice of Two-Handed or Dual Wield back, I honestly feel like this is the best chance to make reality the idea of Two Handed Enhancement Shaman.

Its a powerful aesthetic and class fantasy I would love see become reality once more!

Imma level here… Vanilla Enhancement isn’t the best, but man oh man does it have a really powerful fantasy to it. It had an impact and there is a reason there have been so many threads in here over the years on it. I think it would be really cool to see Enhancement Shaman among the ranks of specs that have the choice.

There would certainly be design hurtles to jump through such as “How do Weapon Buffs work on a Two-Hander? Can you put both on a Two-Hander or just one? If just one would its power need to be greater than if applied to a One-Hander? How would Lava Lash work? Could it be ignored while using a Two-Hander or would it be adapted to work with a Two-Hander as well?”

Lots of questions that would need to be answered, but I think its a venture worth exploring.

The one argument that I feel has the least validity is people saying gearing would be a problem. With the advent of Personal Loot as well as systems in Modern WoW where a singular item has multiple stats (IE One-Handed weapons already exist that have both Strength and Agility or Intellect and swaps depending on which class/spec gets the item) I really don’t see itemization being a problem in terms of Two-Handed weapons.

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there is a use for everything you just mentioned. Maybe not in YOUR preferred type of game but in PvP and OTHERS PREFERRED, there most definitely is a use for them and a welcomed addition.

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It was a trash meme set up that was only “useful” in content because of how easy vanilla was.

It made a person occasionally feel good because RNG (you know…something we say we don’t like) occasionally let them 1 shot someone in pvp.

People weren’t big on 2h in vanilla because of the aesthetic. They were big on 2h in vanilla because it let them 1 shot people with windfury. That aspect is not coming back, and it shouldn’t. Because it was absolutely horrible design.

It was the only setup… In fact, it could be argued that in Vanilla One-Hander and Shield was the “meme” setup.

People used Two-Handers on Enhancement as late as MoP. There are videos out there of people still managing to do good in PvP situations up to MoP with a Two-Hander. Was it memeish? Sure. It certainly was not intended by Blizz but people still did it because people liked it.

Of course not, outside of 1h and shield it was the only option and the option that did the most damage. Of course in Vanilla, when dual wield didn’t exist, it wasn’t because of aesthetic. What kind of argument is that?

PAST Vanilla though, post Dual Wield’s introduction to Shaman, people still used Two-Handers. Heck, in TBC PvP a lot of people still used Two-Handers over Dual Wield for big burst, often times swapping weapons in a fight.

I get that you are trying to paint a narrative and are limiting your scope to Vanilla but making statements like “They didn’t do it for Aesthetic” in Vanilla… Really? Of course they didn’t, they didn’t have choices.

ALSO I am not saying Dual Wield should be removed. Literally NO ONE is saying Dual Wield should be removed. We are wanting choice! The same choice others have had and are getting back (Death Knights, Monks, Etc.)

You don’t get to dictate that, the Devs do and the player base has a right to give feedback. The same thing was said about classic “It will never happen, it shouldn’t happen.” and about the pruning “Those abilities are gone forever, deal with it.”

Well, deal with this. The player’s voice matter whether you like it or not, and we are doing what we are suppose to. Giving feedback on what we would like to see.

And yet its beloved by many in the communities and forums and they reflect that heavily with numerous topics over the years on it. The numerous people using a Two-Hander in “meme” builds because they love the idea. In fact, my post in the depruning thread references quite a number of threads on the matter going back to 2018 and there were even older posts that are no lost because the old forums are no more. Threads that were easily searchable in only a minute and not even close to the total number of threads on the topic.

No one is forcing you to use it, we just want the same choice other classes and specs have! If the idea of choice is that distasteful to you that you are upset other’s want something that wont affect you personally, that is truly petty. It always amazes me, just like people who get upset when people want a race they personally don’t like and would rather it never be a thing just because they don’t like it (Vulpera being a great example).

Those of us wanting Two-Handed as an option are not saying “We want Dual Wield removed!” we are saying “We want choice!”

I have yet to see anyone requesting a Two-Hander option say they want Dual Wield removed, no one is asking for that, no one is asking that your preferred play style be destroyed. We are asking that our preferred play style be considered, that is all.

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Sure, people used it.

Just like you can still use it now.

Just because someone picked something bad, doesn’t mean it was viable.

Ok.

And I am giving my feedback. So. Deal with this.

I am fully aware that people enjoyed a spec that removed all actual skill from play, to give them a RNG free kill.

If you died or won, it was irrelevant to anything other than the windfury proc.

What people are thinking about with rose colored classes won’t be coming back, because that was based on large windfury proc rates.

But I am sure if it came back, a bunch of people that occasionally would play their shaman alt would have fun. While the people that main it would get to see their class made into something horrible. Like how shaman were originally. Bad.

New Enh Shaman changes are bae.

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As an eleshaman I wouldnt mind if they just made acendance baseline again with a few changes.

Looking at ele, the changes seem pretty good. I’ll say that searing totem could be a bit better because I think just having it as a dummy totem without providing more effects is a bit of a waste and underwhelming. Maybe have searing totem change how lava surge procs or something idk.

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Here is an idea when you Lava Burst your searing totem ignites dealing additional AoE damage with increased attack speed for a short duration.

Is that basically searing assault’s effect? Yes, but Ele style.

Unfortunately you left out important context, then addressed his comment as if that context didn’t exist. He’s saying that one-shotting people with WF procs isn’t coming back, and saying it shouldn’t because it’s terrible design. It’s difficult to disagree with that.

Side question: is the powerful fantasy baked into the 2H, or the Windfury? Is it as powerful a fantasy if WF just kind of hits for peanuts when it procs, and you’re just spamming the same buttons? Back in TBC, you drop totems, your shocks all share a CD, and you have Stormstrike to press. Windfury + Autos was a very large percentage of your overall DPS, so when it hit, you felt it. If you don’t feel it in Shadowlands, are you truly going to be as happy? If Stormstrike hits for the same amount with DW as with a 2H, if all your other abilities do the same amount of damage, if WF isn’t very significant, how do you feel still about the powerful fantasy?

Sigh. Here it is again. The mythical idea that them working on 2H Enhancement will have 0 negative impact on any other class design or systems in the game. Just a free, easy change that won’t see any blowback if done improperly, everyone celebrating Shamans standing around with 2H weapons on their backs.

If you have to devolve into trying to make someone else look like a bad guy who wants to take away your freedom, you’re almost always admitting defeat, because you’ve lost the plot entirely. Why not discuss all of the extra baggage involved with 2H Enhancement (viability, loot competition, specific tweaks to accommodate MW proc rates, etc.), baggage that they’ll already have to deal with for other classes that have more recently had 2Hers available.

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Who said 2h enhance isn’t coming back

If stormstrike works with any weap, 2h enhance will be relevent as it always was, ala classic auto attack and ss

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Lot of assumptions here. If Stormbringer is still a mechanic and WF doesn’t scale nearly as much, 2H is going to suffer. You’re imagining a 2H Stormstrike doing a lot more damage than DW but it might not. Or you’re imagining 2H WF being big, but it also might be drastically scaled down from the past.

There’s absolutely no guarantee 2H Enh would feel anything like it used to.

I’m really not imagining that, I was poking fun at how mechanically stunted 2h enhance is and has had never had much support for it in the game

Its def aesthetically cool tho

Haha sorry, totally misread your post. I’m too jaded by all the “can you imagine how cool and easy it would be to bring 2H enhancement back?” posts I’ve been responding to recently.

You’re 1000% accurate, it will be as relevant as it always has.

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I would also like to see changes in acendance, he has always been a favorite talent both in lore and in style of play. I hope that Blizzard will review this situation, putting as a base and some talent to improve it.

With the GCD change, how could you not balance a 2handed shaman? The combat would be much slower. I love the 2h aesthetic of having a big hammer, imbued with the Elements. Having a white hot hammer to smite my foes, while the power of lighting surges through my hands to unleash the fury upon my foe. Windfury was nice but it wouldn’t work the same nowadays, and that’s good. WF was fun but I don’t want it back. I just want the ability to use the hammers I’ve already used once as my shaman, to dust them off and use them again.

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You do realize that DW AND 2H was based off this right? TBC ENH was largely auto attack RNG WF proc based with totem twisting involved. You do know that what are you describing was the same gameplay irrelevant to 2h/DW choice?

Just with DW it occurred more frequently because of weapons speed but at the cost of higher burst. There was and will be a trade off between the two options.

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This is true, but thats a balancing issue the devs take on when they give choice. Higher burst vs more sustained.

Also in PvP the choice could make more comps viable, assuming the choice is balanced. You want to play in a rot comp, go DW. You want to play in a burst comp, go 2H.

I see nothing wrong with choice.

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I wasn’t referring to the TBC 2h/dw choice in anything I was talking about.

Is it really “higher burst” if its “higher uncontrollable burst”? I guess for pvp that can sorta be useful.

What about any of the design gives 2h more burst, considering what gave it more burst previously was windfury procs?