It was a trash meme set up that was only “useful” in content because of how easy vanilla was.
It made a person occasionally feel good because RNG (you know…something we say we don’t like) occasionally let them 1 shot someone in pvp.
People weren’t big on 2h in vanilla because of the aesthetic. They were big on 2h in vanilla because it let them 1 shot people with windfury. That aspect is not coming back, and it shouldn’t. Because it was absolutely horrible design.
It was the only setup… In fact, it could be argued that in Vanilla One-Hander and Shield was the “meme” setup.
People used Two-Handers on Enhancement as late as MoP. There are videos out there of people still managing to do good in PvP situations up to MoP with a Two-Hander. Was it memeish? Sure. It certainly was not intended by Blizz but people still did it because people liked it.
Of course not, outside of 1h and shield it was the only option and the option that did the most damage. Of course in Vanilla, when dual wield didn’t exist, it wasn’t because of aesthetic. What kind of argument is that?
PAST Vanilla though, post Dual Wield’s introduction to Shaman, people still used Two-Handers. Heck, in TBC PvP a lot of people still used Two-Handers over Dual Wield for big burst, often times swapping weapons in a fight.
I get that you are trying to paint a narrative and are limiting your scope to Vanilla but making statements like “They didn’t do it for Aesthetic” in Vanilla… Really? Of course they didn’t, they didn’t have choices.
ALSO I am not saying Dual Wield should be removed. Literally NO ONE is saying Dual Wield should be removed. We are wanting choice! The same choice others have had and are getting back (Death Knights, Monks, Etc.)
You don’t get to dictate that, the Devs do and the player base has a right to give feedback. The same thing was said about classic “It will never happen, it shouldn’t happen.” and about the pruning “Those abilities are gone forever, deal with it.”
Well, deal with this. The player’s voice matter whether you like it or not, and we are doing what we are suppose to. Giving feedback on what we would like to see.
And yet its beloved by many in the communities and forums and they reflect that heavily with numerous topics over the years on it. The numerous people using a Two-Hander in “meme” builds because they love the idea. In fact, my post in the depruning thread references quite a number of threads on the matter going back to 2018 and there were even older posts that are no lost because the old forums are no more. Threads that were easily searchable in only a minute and not even close to the total number of threads on the topic.
No one is forcing you to use it, we just want the same choice other classes and specs have! If the idea of choice is that distasteful to you that you are upset other’s want something that wont affect you personally, that is truly petty. It always amazes me, just like people who get upset when people want a race they personally don’t like and would rather it never be a thing just because they don’t like it (Vulpera being a great example).
Those of us wanting Two-Handed as an option are not saying “We want Dual Wield removed!” we are saying “We want choice!”
I have yet to see anyone requesting a Two-Hander option say they want Dual Wield removed, no one is asking for that, no one is asking that your preferred play style be destroyed. We are asking that our preferred play style be considered, that is all.
Sure, people used it.
Just like you can still use it now.
Just because someone picked something bad, doesn’t mean it was viable.
Ok.
And I am giving my feedback. So. Deal with this.
I am fully aware that people enjoyed a spec that removed all actual skill from play, to give them a RNG free kill.
If you died or won, it was irrelevant to anything other than the windfury proc.
What people are thinking about with rose colored classes won’t be coming back, because that was based on large windfury proc rates.
But I am sure if it came back, a bunch of people that occasionally would play their shaman alt would have fun. While the people that main it would get to see their class made into something horrible. Like how shaman were originally. Bad.
New Enh Shaman changes are bae.
As an eleshaman I wouldnt mind if they just made acendance baseline again with a few changes.
Looking at ele, the changes seem pretty good. I’ll say that searing totem could be a bit better because I think just having it as a dummy totem without providing more effects is a bit of a waste and underwhelming. Maybe have searing totem change how lava surge procs or something idk.
Here is an idea when you Lava Burst your searing totem ignites dealing additional AoE damage with increased attack speed for a short duration.
Is that basically searing assault’s effect? Yes, but Ele style.
Unfortunately you left out important context, then addressed his comment as if that context didn’t exist. He’s saying that one-shotting people with WF procs isn’t coming back, and saying it shouldn’t because it’s terrible design. It’s difficult to disagree with that.
Side question: is the powerful fantasy baked into the 2H, or the Windfury? Is it as powerful a fantasy if WF just kind of hits for peanuts when it procs, and you’re just spamming the same buttons? Back in TBC, you drop totems, your shocks all share a CD, and you have Stormstrike to press. Windfury + Autos was a very large percentage of your overall DPS, so when it hit, you felt it. If you don’t feel it in Shadowlands, are you truly going to be as happy? If Stormstrike hits for the same amount with DW as with a 2H, if all your other abilities do the same amount of damage, if WF isn’t very significant, how do you feel still about the powerful fantasy?
Sigh. Here it is again. The mythical idea that them working on 2H Enhancement will have 0 negative impact on any other class design or systems in the game. Just a free, easy change that won’t see any blowback if done improperly, everyone celebrating Shamans standing around with 2H weapons on their backs.
If you have to devolve into trying to make someone else look like a bad guy who wants to take away your freedom, you’re almost always admitting defeat, because you’ve lost the plot entirely. Why not discuss all of the extra baggage involved with 2H Enhancement (viability, loot competition, specific tweaks to accommodate MW proc rates, etc.), baggage that they’ll already have to deal with for other classes that have more recently had 2Hers available.
Who said 2h enhance isn’t coming back
If stormstrike works with any weap, 2h enhance will be relevent as it always was, ala classic auto attack and ss
Lot of assumptions here. If Stormbringer is still a mechanic and WF doesn’t scale nearly as much, 2H is going to suffer. You’re imagining a 2H Stormstrike doing a lot more damage than DW but it might not. Or you’re imagining 2H WF being big, but it also might be drastically scaled down from the past.
There’s absolutely no guarantee 2H Enh would feel anything like it used to.
I’m really not imagining that, I was poking fun at how mechanically stunted 2h enhance is and has had never had much support for it in the game
Its def aesthetically cool tho
Haha sorry, totally misread your post. I’m too jaded by all the “can you imagine how cool and easy it would be to bring 2H enhancement back?” posts I’ve been responding to recently.
You’re 1000% accurate, it will be as relevant as it always has.
I would also like to see changes in acendance, he has always been a favorite talent both in lore and in style of play. I hope that Blizzard will review this situation, putting as a base and some talent to improve it.
With the GCD change, how could you not balance a 2handed shaman? The combat would be much slower. I love the 2h aesthetic of having a big hammer, imbued with the Elements. Having a white hot hammer to smite my foes, while the power of lighting surges through my hands to unleash the fury upon my foe. Windfury was nice but it wouldn’t work the same nowadays, and that’s good. WF was fun but I don’t want it back. I just want the ability to use the hammers I’ve already used once as my shaman, to dust them off and use them again.
You do realize that DW AND 2H was based off this right? TBC ENH was largely auto attack RNG WF proc based with totem twisting involved. You do know that what are you describing was the same gameplay irrelevant to 2h/DW choice?
Just with DW it occurred more frequently because of weapons speed but at the cost of higher burst. There was and will be a trade off between the two options.
This is true, but thats a balancing issue the devs take on when they give choice. Higher burst vs more sustained.
Also in PvP the choice could make more comps viable, assuming the choice is balanced. You want to play in a rot comp, go DW. You want to play in a burst comp, go 2H.
I see nothing wrong with choice.
I wasn’t referring to the TBC 2h/dw choice in anything I was talking about.
Is it really “higher burst” if its “higher uncontrollable burst”? I guess for pvp that can sorta be useful.
What about any of the design gives 2h more burst, considering what gave it more burst previously was windfury procs?
You actually were because the gameplay style that you were referring to was Vanilla/TBC. Lava Lash wasnt a thing until Wrath and then the spec became less about auto attack procs. Similar to Ret, same thing happened to them. Wrath is when they redesigned seals etc. So when you talk about just waiting for WF procs to do damage, that specifically references Vanilla/TBC even though 2H was a thing for a few xpacs after that.
The reason is there is more burst is because it is a slower weapon. The slower the weapon speed the higher the damage range of said weapon, it is the trade off. So when WF does proc, it raises that attack speed, thus higher range of damage per swing at a faster rate is equivalent to more burst. Compare that to DW where you have a lower damage range weapon but is faster it is not quite as bursty when you do get those procs. Rather you get more sustained damage than the burst.
They’ve yet to address one of the main issues with Enhance Shaman: Squishiness.
It is a melee-based and MAIL wearing class with no form of damage mitigation (like a beast taunting) always available.
It just cannot compare to the other melee based classes. We need to get in range and at the core of the danger with much less to sustain us. No…the small heal does not cover it…
Just give them a passive to enhance their resistance. Call it Earthen Armor or some such.
This is pretty big.
Datamined covenant ability that may or may not be used
Flame Shock duration nerfed to 18 seconds. Ugh. Also had it’s damage calculations seemingly heavily nerfed but numbers on alpha are obviously not final.
Resto changes are so underwhelming, get almost nothing compared to other specs. In fact it overall looks like a nerf, especially for mythic+, that flame shock nerf hurts, and Resto was already behind in damage compared to Hpal and Druid. Meh Earth Shield baseline and yet another aoe heal talent and that’s it… yikes.
Make healing rain instant pls, it’s a complete joke compared to efflo (30 second duration, no cd, insta cast). Add some synergy at all with the spec to Wellspring/Downpour, lower the CD of Flame Shock and revert the silly duration nerf, make Chain Lightning less awful so big aoe dmg isn’t so bad in mythic+. As is, without Vit Conduit and Devout Spirit essences and Igneous Potential azerite, resto is going to be god awful again in mythic+ (as opposed to just kinda playable now).
Bring back Gust of Wind PLEASE, one of my fav abilities.