I suppose we just have different opinions on what’s most important for a spec. I’m a weirdo who really cares about the fantasy of the class and spec so even the tiniest name change makes my heart happy.
Anyhow all of your points are very true and there’s nothing really for me to disagree with, just more of my ramblings about how I want a return to the original SV fantasy from vanilla and BC with a focus on traps and more ranger-ey skills.
Also…
Hah, I actually complete agree with this. It might sound contradictory but oh man I hated the fantasy SV got in WotLK through WoD. It turned from a survivalist into… a tinker/dark ranger/trapper?
WotLK - WoD Survival had no identity. I find it pretty goofy when RSV lovers use it as an argument for a return to the old gameplay.
I also feel like spec/class fantasy is really important to me. I just feel like the issue is that people have built up Kill Command to be more important to BM than makes sense. Both abilities are at their nature just the hunter telling their pet to attack. But for BM the master of beasts it does more, for survival it’s time during which the hunter can refocus. I think it’s a perfect example of a shared class ability in the sense that you essentially want to be hitting it as frequently as possible for both specs even if it is for different reasons.
I would love if all classes had more non-combat abilities to play around with, or at least non-damage abilities. What I really want is for them to bring back passives on aspects, and add a couple more in just for flavor. Aspect of the frog to let me jump, crane to let me water walk etc. as long as they last no more than like 10-15 seconds I don’t really see it being a balance problem.
You know it was originally because I remember KC being BM-only since BC… but after actually looking it up, turns out it wasn’t actually in the talent tree so it was all-spec…?
Welp, I’ve defeated my own argument. KC can stay. Coordinated assault should still have different VFX from beastial wrath though, or screw it just have it share the same name.
I actually really love this idea. A shame it’ll be lost to time in a thread about dual-wielding SV.
Having to consistently land offensive traps during a boss fight in legion was soooooooo annoying and frustrating on both high mobility fights but also on bosses that just had weird positing. It was kind ok in the start because your trap literally shot a fair few yards in front of you for perfect placement while in combat but they changed it to a regular skill shot which made for great pre planning but in the fight it quickly became messy and not worth the gcd in a lot of instances.
Offensive traps should remain a talented option not a baseline one i thanked the gods when they made the change to wildfire bombs. Im not here for carves cd but thats another story.
i remember back in wotlk having two of those ice onehanded swords from Malygos, my gun from Kelthuzad , bunch of traps, quivers, i actually felt like a hunter with a bunch of tools to make the job, now im just an Archer.
I find it pretty goofy that you continue to force your own arbitrary constraints on what Survival can and can’t be to argue that ranged Survival didn’t make sense.
The trap focus was there from the beginning and one of those traps was Explosive Trap. Congratulations on being the 2nd person I’ve ever seen to sincerely argue that something as basic and commonplace as an explosive shot somehow doesn’t fit the Hunter class, i.e. the class centred around ranged weapons. Amirror was the first, but I am well past considering a single thing he says to be genuine rather than manipulative spin-doctoring to defend his melee favouritism. You seem to actually believe yourself. But this argument doesn’t work because a) like I said, explosive shots are common for ranged weapon users in all fantasy universes, and b) Survival has had explosives as part of the spec in literally every. single. iteration. Oh, and let’s not forget that Explosive Shot literally still exists within the class.
Survival in WotLK had everything Survival in BC and Vanilla had. It didn’t “turn into” anything. What happened is that they looked at a spec that had a purely support/utilitarian role and figured out a way to sensibly expand that into something that made sense as an independent DPS spec. What was Survival in the first two eras of WoW? It was the resourceful opportunist. It used whatever tools it had at its disposal to gain the upper hand. Adding special effects to its shots fits perfectly into that while providing a convincing direction for an independent damage toolkit. And that’s why people liked it: because it managed to provide another interesting approach to ranged weapon combat that wasn’t a) dependent on a pet or b) focused on sharpshooting, aiming, and sniping.
Of course, this is all until a bunch of melee-favouring monkeys joined the class design team and were put in charge of managing the Hunter class despite not having enough knowledge or investment in the class to understand basic aspects of its identity or the appeal the Hunter playerbase found in the class. If you think that’s an unfair take, remind yourself that this same group of developers also decided that making traps exclusive to Survival was a reasonable idea that made sense.
Alright Bepples, you’ve actually changed my mind on this with your reply on this thread, and the other spirit bond thread. I won’t reply on the other thread since my thoughts are the same as they are here. Considering that Explosive Trap and Immolation Trap were already parts of hunters from the very start and considering a lot of what you’ve said… I can much more easily see how Explosive Shot fits into the theme.
Your description is simple and fits the old Survival name and mechanics to the point I could see it replace the old in-game spec description. I’ll keep it in mind when I look back at the old skills from now on.
We do seem to be in agreement about Black Arrow needing a rebranding as well on the other thread. I didn’t mention my specific reasoning for disliking the skill in SV but it’s basically the same as yours: it should be more grounded in practicality.
You know, I main melee SV and even then I have to agree with you. The more I play MSV the more I long for a return to the old spec. The vast majority of the skills are ranged as is, and it’s obvious the designers made SV’s skills nearly all ranged after the immense backlash from the Legion changes. Not to mention a lot of current SV identity feels like it downright steals from BM.
MSV is fun and all, but they may as well cut their losses and return to the old design, especially since the only unique parts of MSV are contained in the Mongoose Bite and Wildfire Infusion talents which wouldn’t be that difficult to implement as new ranged talents in the old 90 row of RSV. (I would assume Barrage, Powershot, and Glaive Toss wouldn’t be a thing to choose between if RSV returns.)
Just get rid of the 2-hand weapon restriction on survival spells and everything’s good. If they’re loosening the weapon restrictions for FDKS and WW/BM monks, then they can do it for other classes. Also give ranged survival back as a 4th spec.
I really would rather see it replace MSV. A class with 4 specs that are all dps sounds like a pretty bad idea and a balancing nightmare.
As much as I love melee SV, I love ranged more, and current SV doesn’t have anything that unique besides Mongoose Bite and Wildfire Infusion, and those concepts could easily be implemented into the old SV as talents. That would be a much better solution for people who still enjoy how MSV plays than having a 4th dps spec.
Alternatively those MSV talents could be built into BM as talents since the two specs share an awful lot as is.
I would rather blizz does what they said they would do and incorporate that playstyle as an option for Mark’s through talents. Leave my MSV alone, I’ve never had more fun on the class.
As much as I dislike MSV, I would never want to see fans of it have to go through what RSV fans had to and have their spec ripped away from them. Best solution is to just add it as a 4th spec. If you revert it back, we will just have the arguments we have now in the opposite direction.
MM mechnically is far too different from RSV to implement. The various parts of RSV would create a completely different spec if they were actually properly implemented as talents, and I’m sure that’s the reason we still don’t have RSV back in the MM talents. Blizz doesn’t want two different specs inside of one spec.
Now MSV on the other hand is mechanically pretty simple to implement as talents. I would assume the MSV players who are tied to the gameplay and not just the thematics of being melee would be happy getting to play around with the unique MSV mechanics available as talents in RSV.
Although I love it so, MSV really only has three unique traits that I would say create current SV’s playstyle: self-resetting KC, Mongoose Bite, and Wildfire Infusion.
Self-resetting KC could be implemented as a talent that randomly procs instant Cobra Shots for focus. Mongoose Bite could be implemented a number of ways, but I think it’d be interesting to see Mongoose Fury on Explosive Shot. Wildfire Bomb is already Blizz’s answer to the RSV crowd… so obviously Wildfire Infusion for Explosive Shot as a talent would fill that.
Did I miss anything about MSV you personally love? I’m willing to bet if the parts you love showed up as talents you’d be right on board with getting a more complex spec with all the MSV parts you love and with the ability of being 100% ranged.
As cool as that sounds, i love the melee/range hybrid that survival is now. I love that I can do decent dmg from range but to maximize my potential I have to get into the frey sort of speak.
I know you miss RSV, and the way they did it was kind of a smack in the face to the RSV players. But to be frank you seem like a whiny ex girlfriend who just can’t let it go in all the threads you speak on the subject about.