Could she have also used it during the catapults/burning of teldrassil? I sincerely forget what “a good war” writes, but I thought it was largely ambiguous other than dark magic or some such.
Its a common thing in writing and story telling, show, dont tell. Them having to tell (not show) us she was evil all along means that is forced.
Thats an awfully long winded reaponse, beating around the bush.
How is this good story telling? It sacrifices story telling for shock value. Generally shock value isnt worth it.
Call it what it is, 7d chess no need to dress it up.
What ‘hints’ are you refering to?
Thats a nice little excuse for bad story telling. ‘Hey! Lets just not tell them anything because its the story!’
I’m a bit confused by these two, seemingly antagonistic statements. I think the story doesn’t tell us she’s evil. It hints at it, yes, from disjointed plot points in legion and pre-patch (dream journal), but it’s more a show us. Show us teldrassil. Show us lordaeron. Show us (that darn forsaken I can’t remember his name in stormsong)
Also, I don’t mean any offense by my posts/replies. If it feels like I’m attacking you, I’m sorry. Not my intention at all. I just like having a good discussion. I make no mistake that I don’t have the objective answer to what the story is attempting to tell or make the audience feel.
Also the hints of Sylvanas being ahead of the curve are Sylvanas’ realization that Azerite “changes everything”. What that means, not sure ultimately. But for me it seemed like she could use this as a catalyst for igniting (ha) a war that ultimately served her own purposes - and a war not truly about resources/Azerite. In other words, she was using the resource to do something else. Something else no one was aware of. I think it’s stuff like this that contributes to 7d chess mentality. She played into the horde v alliance constant warfare. She milked it for all it’s worth, ironically like Blizzard did. And in so doing, created what I feel is such a meta narrative that I’m pretty content with it.
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Unfortunately not. Perhaps the most offensive thing about the build up to the burning of Teldrassil when we are all wondering who would burn it and why was actually how. And how ended up being with catapults from Darkshore. Catapults that they themselves gave us the maximum extent of their range of in A Good War:
- A short distance away, behind the main lines, was another group of siege weapons. One of the unit’s officers, an orc with a sour expression and a false smile, sat near a pristine demolisher.
“How far back are we from the front lines?”
“Several hundred yards, my lord.”
Saurfang growled at the officer. “And what is the maximum range of these weapons?”
The officer wilted. “A couple hundred . . . ?”
And was it even Azerite or dark magic or some such? No, just regular, everyday arcane fire that any mage could cast:
- Sylvanas had assigned magi to each siege crew. When the Horde fired back, they would do so with unstable, explosive, arcane‐touched payloads that could set an entire ship ablaze.
Men, women, children . . . the fire would not care. Fire had no honor, no reason, only the urge to consume until there was nothing left.
Everyone still in Darnassus would die.
How Teldrassil burned was a highlight of how poorly thought out this all was.
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I dont feel like is showed anything is the difference between you and me, and they certently dident show in earlier expansions.
Its ok i dont think you’re attacking me personally, you’re attacking the argumemts which is more than welcome. Im rather blunt and savage with my responses, come from the arena forums ya know :P. I dont feel ya swayed me though with your last arguments just felt like you beat around the issue.
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All good on my side. Maybe someday I’ll get wise enough and see if can’t articulate my point better - though you’re obviously savvy to this jazz so I don’t think I’d be introducing anything “new.”
And I’ll be honest, I think I’m getting sloppy in my responses - I am incredibly verbose, as you mention :D. I genuinely don’t know what the questions are! But that’s fine. I can bug ya later. I’m getting tired…
I think that’s the fun of these forums. Individuals with competing arguments attempting to make sense of sometimes nonsensical story.
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Don’t take it personally. When Veliina doesn’t have a point to make any more Veliina devolves to posting shock value non sequiturs for post count sake.
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Oh silly amadis quit being mad about me beating you in every forum argument we’ve had!
See. Like that. Veliina likes headcanon.
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I’ll take the hit that i was being long winded.
Honestly maybe I should thank her for not posting this in response 
http://www.sharegif.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/5-the-big-lebowski-quotes.gif
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If you think you’re long winded you should see some of my longer posts.
Honnestly i think you were trying to articulate a point where there really wasent much atriculation to be had hence the long windedness. I really dont think they’ve done much in the way of showing sylvanas being evil.
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The irony of us lamenting being long-winded over several posts.
Lol yeah, you’re correct there with me at least, Veli
Oh wow.
Yeah, I don’t think they have either. I think they’ve done a good job making her actions dubious at best, but a comfortable shade of grey. To me at least.
Sorry for confusion. My mind was thinking “how can I explain how I feel Sylvanas motives slowly became known over the expansion,” but tired. Yep. Can I go with that?
If it’s any consolation, your analysis of what Blizzard wants Sylvanas to be now was likely accurate, and we will probably be seeing flashbacks in Shadowlands covering all the points you hit.
thanks Amadis. I think I sincerely misunderstood what was being asked. It’s on me due to my fatigue. But nonetheless, these characters are very personal for each of us. I don’t mean to intrude on other’s self-vision of what that character is to them.
Maybe that’s another take away with Sylvanas: perhaps there’s enough ambiguity here for interpretation on her character that allows those who hate her to legit hate her, but for those that love her to legit lover her - and everyone else sprinkled somewhere in betwixt the two.
Lights out here. I mean light bulbs. Paladin and all - the Light never goes out…
Good Night.
I’ll leave this here in case you didn’t get to see the Blizzcon panels yourself. Steve Danuser at the Blizzcon Q&A Panel:
- Obviously we had- we've seen Sylvanas through the course of Legion, and that intro cinematic, right, when the airships and everything and she's kind of giving Varian a hand. So, as we get into the Shadowlands we're going to be finding out a lot of Sylvanas' motivation and what her relationship with the Jailer is and when it started and we'll find out that it actually leads back quite a bit earlier in the timeline. You may be familiar with a story called Edge of Night in which Sylvanas lept off the top of Icecrown. And you saw part of the story there. But that was kind of the start of her interactions with the Jailer. And as for why Sylvanas would lend an arrow to aid Varian, there was a long term strategy where Sylvanas needed to get into a position where she could take over the mantle of Warchief, and she couldn't do that if she was aggro and everyone was against her, so she had to bide her time, and now we're seeing the fruition of that in Shadowlands.
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Yeah, I did see that and remember it - but thank you for posting for recall! I don’t remember all the QA though but this and the chronicle one stuck out (oh and the removal of factions).
Night!
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Id be down for this as long as the horde had a similar scenario doing the same to the alliance for their war crimes (vulpera, and dark irons). Also I dont think you can just say 'well someone technically isnt horde anymore so you cant feel bad about it and and its TECHNICALLY not horde v horde.
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I dont wanna say a story cant flat out be done, buts a lonnnnnggggggg shot. Its a game and no one should be forced to redeem or repent for actions they had no choice in. Plus im pretty sure nothing would satisfy the alliance lust for vengence/justice nor I dont think anything would redeem the horde, and make people feel redeemed. So its kinda like whats the point in even trying.
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I dont think they’d ever apologize, just sweep it under the rug and such and move on. I too would love to know what they thought their end game was.
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Id like to think, players dont really hate eachother as people. Im sure if most people on these forums went to a coffee shop most ppl would have a great conversation about the story no matter what side they are on.
I think people mostly hate the ideas of what would make for a good story for the respective factions. For example, a lot of alliance players seem to think even more redemption for the horde, yet horde players dont think that idea would be very fun for them. Alliance players dont like like the idea for the horde doing nothing either.
Its like this constant battle of people trying to push eachothers ideas on eachother.
Id also like to clarify, this was mot an expansion ment for pvpers, they’ve done next to no balancing, gearing is at an all time low, and things have been left broken for months on end. Its was only a pvp THEAMED expansion, not a pvp expansion.
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I believe the point Veliina is making is that Sylvanas’ reasons are never shown in-game or within media. Every answer towards her is Word of God via live interviews.
Within media, We know she’s evil but we don’t know why; Everything with Sylvanas is just a constantly compounding mystery with no reveal to settle things, and having to wait two expansions for a full one is a very big sell.
Or that could just be my frustrations with the writing putting words in her mouth.
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