Shadow Word: Feedback - Searing Nightmare

Shadow Word: Feedback - Searing Nightmare

Over the course of development on Dragonflight we want to spend some time talking about big topics plaguing Shadow Priest design in the new expansion. In this post I want to discuss Shadow Priest AoE design, specifically Searing Nightmare. Searing Nightmare is a simple talent in its design, and truly unlocks Shadow Priest into having an AoE rotation that does not rely on DoTs or Shadowy Apparitions while doing massive damage. This is a contentious point as many people in the community enjoyed previous iterations of Shadow Priest that did not have Searing Nightmare, simply because the spell does not fit with our toolkit in any way. Unfortunately for Shadow Priests, this spell is more or less our only real way of doing effective damage in most mythic+ or AoE situations. Shadow’s AoE lives or dies based on the strength of this talent and for most players the playstyle is not enjoyable. We would like to see some iteration on this spell or a complete rework of Shadow’s AoE going into Dragonflight.

TL;DR

Searing Nightmare dominates the Shadow Priest AoE playstyle without complementing our base kit. It does this while also requiring significant ramp up for each cast and investment that causes conflict with other parts of the game such as handling mechanics and interrupting enemy casts.

The Issue

Let’s focus on the primary point, why is the Searing Nightmare playstyle not fun as a Shadow Priest? For anyone that has not played Shadow Priest in an AoE scenario here is an image of a rotation snapshot of a pull in a Halls 22 key:

This playstyle showcases the baseline AoE rotation for Shadow Priest, following the below cycle:

  1. Mind Sear
  2. Searing Nightmare
  3. Searing Nightmare

This is a relatively simple cycle that has some variation to maintain Living Shadow uptime currently in Shadowlands, but this is extremely disengaging repetitive gameplay. Notice that during this burst window we do not cast Void Bolt, refresh DoTs, or optimize for Shadowflame Prism due to how rigid this cycle is with the Mind Sear cast while casting requirement.

Searing Nightmare Design

I wanted to show this to illustrate a few main negatives we have with the Searing Nightmare playstyle. Since this is a spammable ability that just costs a negligible amount of Insanity in AoE it completely dominates the playstyle as soon as you start pulling more than 3 or 4 mobs in a pack (most of Mythic+ trash). With this damage style you are now chained to spamming Mind Sear casts and trying to fit in Searing Nightmare’s hoping you do not need to move, handle a mechanic, or interrupt a mob as any of these actions would cause you to need to re-channel Mind Sear to get back into your “damage” phase. The lack of an ability to quickly interrupt a mob in mythic+ without losing damage is something relatively unique to Shadow, which adds a pain point to a spec that already struggles with representation in mythic+. The requirement on the spell to be cast only while casting Mind Sear also creates issues with interacting with the rest of our kit. This is because Searing Nightmare exists in a space completely disjointed from the rest of our spells, as it completely dominates what you do in an AoE environment. In the above screenshot you can see there is no room to spread our DoTs, keep them refreshed with Void Bolt, or maximize other parts of our kit like Shadowflame Prism. The only reason you see Mind Blasts weaved in throughout this example is to maintain the Living Shadow from our tier 4-set bonus, which deals a moderate amount of damage passively.

Discordance with Shadowflame Prism

Speaking of Shadowflame Prism, Searing Nightmare also does not play well when used in conjunction with what is now our top used Legendary in Shadowlands. I wanted to bring this up because Shadowflame Prism is returning in Dragonflight as a core talent in our main Priest tree. Not only is it returning it is also the capstone trait to the “Shadow side” of our tree, meaning we will use this more or less all the time in Dragonflight. Since Searing Nightmare is effectively spammable in AoE that means any time not spent in Mind Sear means you are giving up AoE damage in favor of something else. As we noted above this trumps any amount of multi-dotting we would normally do in our kit and has a similar problem with Shadowflame Prism. While we do cast a few Mind Blasts throughout to maintain the 4-set Living Shadow, we do not weave in Mind Blast on cooldown or Shadow Word: Death on cooldown to optimize Shadowflame Prism damage. Simply put, optimizing for Shadowflame Prism damage causes you to lose Searing Nightmare damage, and vice versa. This means the user needs to go through and calculate which playstyle they should optimize on pull to pull, and in almost every scenario Searing Nightmare works out to be the winner. This is partly due to Shadowflame Prism being target capped at 5 targets, but would surely face similar problems if tuned differently. The point is trying to make both of these playstyles work is a juggling act that is not fun, and feels like the playstyle is being consumed by these choices that have nothing to do with the core of our kit. We would rather have AoE components that complement our kit, not dominate it completely. Searing Nightmare could still exist as some sort of Insanity spender in our kit, but it being spammable and having a cast while casting requirement causes friction with our parts of the kit.

Rotational Feedback Cycle

The talent Searing Nightmare replaced going into Shadowlands was Dark Void, a relatively simple spell that after a short cast spread Shadow Word: Pain on all surrounding targets on a 30 seconds cooldown. In comparison to Searing Nightmare this sounds incredibly weak, how was this spell ever competitive when we now have access to a spell that is relatively spammable to spread Shadow Word: Pain? The answer here lies in tuning of the spec and the differences in playstyle, specifically with our damage over time effects. Back then this was also a conduit for triggering Shadowy Apparitions and since it did not dominate our rotation Void Bolt was more than enough to sustain our DoTs until Dark Void came back off cooldown. This created a feedback cycle where we could maintain DoTs on a pack for a long duration if you played your Voidform well. This post is not about asking for Dark Void back, but simply highlighting why something like that has worked in the past. If Searing Nightmare took lessons learned from that spell and was altered to add some sort of cooldown OR higher Insanity cost and a removed requirement of cast while casting it could alleviate some of the issues its playstyle now faces.

On top of that difference in playstyle over the course of the last several expansions Shadow has been plagued with repeated nerfs to our damage over time spells. This has caused us to stop spreading DoTs on targets in priority in multi-target, since they simply do not do enough damage anymore. In the current version of Shadow our DoTs exist as a conduit to activate our Mastery or our Shadowy Apparitions, but by themselves are extremely weak. In the log shown above Shadow Word: Pain, Vampiric Touch, and Devouring Plague all accounted for less 20% of our overall damage in the key. Putting these pieces together it makes more sense why a spell like Searing Nightmare can exist in this game, our dots by themselves are incredibly weak. Regardless, Searing Nightmare fills a valuable slot in our kit, it gives us burst AoE that otherwise we wouldn’t have, it just does not feel right in our kit with its current design.

Conclusion

The reason why we care so much about this is because we do not want our AoE rotation to be filled with spammable abilities without any sense of cooldown management. Whie Searing Nightmare does do a large amount of damage with this playstyle, the point is that it is simply not fun to play and does not complement our kit well enough to be satisfying. Having an AoE playstyle that centers around our base kit while giving us some form of burst aoe is solely needed, but we’d like a more engaging and less punishing rotation than we have today.

100 Likes

My biggest issue with SN is that it practically goes against anything else in the toolkit.

Shadowflame Prism? Shadowy Apparitions? Psychic Link? Vampiric Insight? They’re all tied to VT/MB. VT/MB aren’t used due to SN. Voidform? Used for Mastery, not VB/Hungering Void.

A button that single-handely neuters your whole kit is just not good.

Imo the Shadow AoE gameplay should be centered around Idol of N’zoth, which wants both DoTs and DP casts, Apparitions and Psychic Link. Mind Sear should be pressed as the filler. Some past effects that worked better with the our kit for AoE would be (but might lack burst potential):

  • Thought Harvester: VT ticks have a chance to buff MS.
  • Twins Secret Touch: Voidform (could be DP) causes MS to spread DoTs to x targets.
  • MF/MS Insanity: DP increases MF/MS damage.
12 Likes

Great feedback as always, Searing Nightmare just feels terrible to cast in any situation. You’re locked into SN and nothing else during its channel. You can’t move, you can’t CC, you can’t interrupt. Nothing. No other spec is this hamstrung with its AE abilities.

If you do have to stop and move, you are forced to start the channel all over again and build up to doing damage over 2 ticks. Shadow AE takes so long to set up to do any meaningful damage that by the time you can actually plant and channel, the targets are usually already dead or near dead.

9 Likes

Make 10.0 shadowy apparitions + DoTs again

15 Likes

Based on the overall issue revolving around “Searing Nightmare”, I would actually think its more a “Mind Sear” problem. “Searing Nightmare” just makes it more noticeable imo.

With Mind Sear, you have all the problems that comes with Searing Nightmare…

  • Rooted
  • Disrupts the flow of the rest of the class abilities

Obviously in M+ with affixes that require you to move around, you can’t really rely on casting Mind Sear let alone get your Searing Nightmare ticks in when you got things bubbling up beneath or around you.

However, I don’t really want the spell to get removed because I can find value… at least in the past and in PvP to knock out steathers when used on ally.

4 Likes

Such a well thought out post.

Commenting so I can track people’s thoughts.

2 Likes

:eyes:

I agree with pretty much all of what has been said in this thread. I feel like we tried current Searing Nightmare for long enough and the overall community opinion is that it isn’t fun or engaging to use. There are two very easy fixes that I can see…

  1. Searing Nightmare has a CD, costs Insanity, and applies both Vampiric Touch and Shadow Word: Pain.

OR

  1. Remove Searing Nightmare, move Shadow Crash to it’s current choice node, create a new talent for the old Shadow Crash node that buffs Shadow Crash to apply Vampiric Touch and Shadow Word: Pain.

Either of these options would greatly improve Shadow’s play in AOE without forcing a complete spec overhaul. Additional benefits include…

  • Maintains Flow with CDs - This allows us to build or ramp into Voidform and attacking mobs with waves of Shadowy Apparitions while maintaining the overall flow of using Voidform. Similar to what we saw at the end of BFA. (Voidbolt > DP > Mind Blast, repeat.)
  • Maintains Flow without CDs - This also allows us to continue doing AOE through Apparitions with Mind Blast and Devouring Plague, then using Mind Sear for a filler. This all continues the overall flow of Shadow.
  • Plays into Apparitions - There are several talents that interact with Shadowy Apparitions on the left side of the talent tree, but if nothing changes we have little reason or way to proc them in AOE. This then leads us to wanting to avoid them in the talent tree for Mythic plus, however the best Idol for AOE is on the same side as the Apparition talents. Then add that the right side of the tree is mostly focused on Mind Blasts and Mind Flay. This all just feels wrong and disjointed if we have no way to reliably/efficiently apply Vampiric Touch to spawn Apparitions in AOE.
  • Plays into Shadowflame Prism - Either option also reliably procs Shadowflame Prism, a core Priest Talent build that Shadow will use in every situation. This makes the overall toolkit feel more connected and intended.
  • Conforms to AOE Soft-Target-Capping - As seen with the Rogue Assassination talent, “Indiscriminate Carnage - Your next Garrote and your next Rupture also apply to all enemies within 10 yards of the target, dealing reduced damage beyond 8 targets.” Vampiric Touch, Shadow Word: Pain, and Shadowy Apparitions can all be subjected to the AOE soft-target-cap so that this doesn’t get out of control for tuning/balancing.

Overall I think that with either of these changes we can restore Shadow’s identity and gameplay flow. Please consider and reply.

8 Likes

Just wanted to chime in and say that you’ve highlighted a very poignant issue with Shadow that even I’ve noticed (and in addition to the poor feeling of Searing Nightmare, the reason why I benched my Priest) - is that there simply aren’t enough ways to apply Vampiric Touch in an AoE scenario, when conversely we have aspects of gameplay that hinge on having it applied to as many enemies as you can. It makes every encounter with more than one enemy feel like an uphill battle, its not a great user experience.

5 Likes

Since Holy and Discipline get Halo/Divine Star. Would be cool if we got Shadow version of Cascade back. Can increase the cooldown if needed and have Shadowy Apparition’s reduce the CD by 1 sec per hit or something.

Would be nice lol.

1 Like

Divine Star/Halo with Wickedness could also be an option in the priest tree, e.g. in the part where Crystalline Reflection is (probably noone will ever go down that path as it stands right now)

Cascade, while a fun spell, ultimately was too good for healing, still good for shadow, but pretty bugged after they allowed each target to be hit twice. (it could hit a single target up to 5 times vs. the intended 2). Cascade’s damage/healing could be significantly impacted by target positioning and your initial target, it was anything but consistent.

2 Likes

VT and MB aren’t used not because of SN. They are not used because it is entirely impractical to spread VT onto more than 4 targets while juggling interrupts, destroying explosive orbs or CC’ing the packs, dispelling, and the fact that DoT based classes in M+ are GARBAGE.

This is not Spriest exclusive. Affliction, Balance, and Feral Druid all suffer in M+

There is no payoff to the DoTs because they have high ramp up, have been weakened to curb the power of DoT specs in council fights in raids, which means the vast majority of the damage of these specs is now sunk into their single target resource spenders and a 3 min cd, and outside those you tickle the enemy.

So what do you do by the time you get up VT on 4-5 targets? The mobs are already half dead to the burst aoe classes.

The simple fact is Shadow Priest needs a practical mechanic to spread VT, Affliction Warlock needs a way to spread Agony, Balance Druid should have the spread by default on both moonfire and sunfire, etc.

DoT classes need a way to bypass the ramp up of individually ramping up DoT’s across several targets.

We already see successful DoT spreading systems in shamans and DK’s.

Moreover, Mindblast and Voidbolt will always be in conflict with AoE until they implement Psychic Link baseline so Mindblast can cleave by default, and Void Bolt needs to cleave up to 3-5 targets, period, with preference for DoTs that are lower remaining duration.

Shadow Crash needs a faster projectile speed. It should Apply VT+SWP to all targets affected.

Searing Nightmare should be an instant cast not requiring Mindsear channel to be active.

These changes alone would radically change how awful shadow priest feels at the moment. Mindsear could use with a slightly longer channel time.

Another problem with Shadow is that garbage PI. If they reduce Void Eruption to 1 min, you could have it for almost every pack pull in M+, but because of the garbage PI being every 2 mins you always end up holding Void Eruption. Too much damage sunk into that cd combo, and it makes shadow priests hit like a wet noodle outside it.

Delete PI, and bake that damage back into SWP+VT+MB.

1 Like

This is the issue I saw with trying to play shadow this expansion compared to BFA.

In BFA you tab DoTed everything with Misery and your Shadowy Apparitions were your cleave damage. You could maintain a high uptime on pre-changed Voidform so you had an endlessly army of ghosts flying everywhere.

With Shadowlands… by the time you tag the 3rd mob with a DoT you’re already miles behind all the other AOE specs. So you’re pretty much encouraged to do nothing but spam for Searing Nightmare right off the start otherwise you fall far behind.

5 Likes

And the change to Devouring Plague introduced even more ramp up to our damage while sucking out even more damage out from our DoTs.

Blizzard’s handling of DoT specs BFA onwards has been atrocious.

3 Likes

This sentence went heavy on the not using not negatives.

1 Like

I just want to feel like Shang tsung and have spirits flying out of my body.

1 Like

Yea I thought it was removed because of the healing aspect, but I figured since they already had the opportunity to bring Halo and Divine Star into the class tree and didn’t (missed opportunity) then perhaps we can make shadow the special one and give direct access to Cascade in Shadows talent tree.

Would honestly solve burst AOE problem and it was such a cool looking and fun spell.
Gah I miss WoD shadow lol.

Honestly SN is very much the reason you don’t get to use most of your kit anymore. If you play misery right now in dungeon, it feels pretty fun. You actually feel like your globals matter. The damage is just slow - but once you’ve got DoTs out, the playstyle is pretty fun and your damage is OK so long as you can keep them up. Wheras SN is literally just sit there, sear and hit SN every once in a while, enter void form and continue hitting SN. This doesn’t work currently mostly because M+ is mass AoE right now, and managing those dots is impossible without sacrificing everything to keep them up. So your damage only is competitive in dungeons with smaller pulls, and only at the level they won’t instantly die to your survival hunter’s bombs.

I think if they replaced SN with even a somewhat expensive spender that just spread VT and SW:P (maybe even DP) or even just extended them and shot out ghosts to each target or something, Shadow would have a good talent path for AoE and feel pretty fun to play in AoE too with Psychic Link + Auspicious + shadow crash and Idol of N’zoth. You’d be playing to generate tons of spirits with a bit of DoT management thrown in (though with a refresher, obviously less management). And mind sear would go back to filler.

PI’s just not gonna go. Reducing VF to 1 minute, or increasing it to 2 min for a bit higher payoff seem like they’re the only solution spriest is likely to get.

1 Like

Something needs to change though.

The current playstyle of Shadow is you literally have to sit on all your major cds until PI resets every 2 minutes.

So for 20s you get to do actual damage and the other 1 min 40s inbetween it’s boring. Also, the spec is so dependent on trinkets like the Ruby trinket that you can’t even really use anything else.

1 Like

I don’t disagree. I think PI is very weird for shadow in that it doesn’t line up very well at all.