Hello, Awesome and very informative well written post as usual Publik, I have some basic thoughts on not just SN but how I feel shadow could/should play and how I enjoyed it most. I agree with the post for the most part, a lot of my pain points are things you pointed out, I very much feel like they are pushing shadow further and further from being a sustain damage DPS and want to throw us into this funnel ST class which is not what shadow has ever been or is designed to be. I never very much liked the idea of DP coming back I think it was retired for good reasons but regardless, I feel the class should be geared towards out dots dealing the majority of our damage, our dots outlasting the enemy and our SA’s exploding on contact and our Procs used as a way to deal instant bursty damage while on the move or in general while feeding our resource. I truly believe and I have tested this a lot, if we had a way to throw VT and Pain on a bunch of targets at once (maybe a re-worked SN being an instant cast spell that splashes our dots on all enemies in a radius of like 15-20 yards or something and if our SA’s were sped up (like they were in MoP) given the ability to deal AOE damage and proc on vt crits and from DP casts and MB casts still (especially the procs) our cleave would be fine and our class would would flow so well and it would be such a sight to see us thematically floating around with tendrils growing from us and ghosts zooming all over exploding in shadow novas and procs going off left and right creating living things and geez, its just a dream to think about for me. I know a lot of people said/claimed we had a burst problem in BFA with our design but i personally never saw a problem with that because in higher keys like 15’s and up when the enemies lasted long enough i would just blow over just about all other dps but my rotation was involved it was fun and felt rewarding seeing me not start on top but quickly overwhelming the other dps and thats what I think shadows design should be about. Not every class needs to open up with 50k dps but so long as we can ramp quickly and effectively I dont see a problem with that design style. I very much prefer classes to stay as unique as possible while also being competitive and uniquely useful in all content, when you homogenize all the classes they not only slowly start to lose their identity but everything starts to feel and perform exactly the same and I dont think that should ever be the goal. I think some classes should be better at burst or spread target dps or sustain or execute because its what that spec/class excels at. I think the goal especially for a game like WoW is to get to a place where you feel ok playing a class that starts low on ST but maybe ramps to the top 5 by the end of the fight or just annihilates classes in spread damage because you can multidot or can keep up in overall keystone damage I think would be amazing. I think the majority of us dont care necessarily to be the very top dps (although it does feel good when we are #S2M) but it feels worse when no matter how well we play in a fight or dungeon we are still 10%, 15% or more lower from other dps classes on average. I think that is a problem. Anyway sorry for the rant, I love shadow and always have so many ideas for it and things id love to see, just hoping the class shines a bit more in DF.
Searing Nightmare is not enjoyable to play with and we cannot run anything else in aoe situations if we want to be even somewhat competitive.
Great post. Agree with everything you said.
Idk how unpopular this opinion is: But I wish the spec was centered on your apparitions, at least for AoE. But maybe I miss BFA shadow too much.
Completely agree. It also FELT good, having all of those apparitions menacly floating across the battlefield.
The condition to trigger apparitions needs to be reverted to critical hits of damage over time effects. Imagine how much better even a horrid spell like Searing Nightmare would feel if the Pain inflicted by that spell would also trigger apparitions?
I love apparitions but I I hated their travel time. They look cool but it’s not cool when you get a bunch that just fizzle as they approach a dead corpse.
Why was my post removed? Absolute clown behaviour.
bump it up bump the jam
Destro locks complain - nerfs reverted. Blood dks complain - nerfs reconsidered. Hunters complain about talent tree - tree immediately reconsidered. Shadow?
Crickets.
Thanks, Publik, for another well thought out post. Agree with everything you wrote.
I think there’s two solutions:
- Uncouple SN from mind sear and make it an aoe spender that compliments the rest of our kit/rotation (with appropriate buffs)
- Return to dot/apparitions-based aoe, but with a way (perhaps via updated SN or crash) to spread our dots quickly on big packs.
I think the worst thing about shadow priest aoe right now, and a big part of why it feels so bad, is that there’s no payoff for its awkwardness and complexity. You do calculus in your head to figure out whether you should spam SN, focus on SFP, dot, weave blasts, manage overcapping gcds and insanity, etc, for maximum output, and then you look at your dps and it’s super mediocre. Playing my ele sham, rogue, and lock actually makes me angry: their aoe feels good, aligns well with their ST rotation, and they pump dps with half the effort.
I’ve mained shadow for several expansions now, and this tier I gave up for the first time and started healing keys as holy. Why beat a broken horse?
I hope blizz reads this and the other feedback threads and listens. Would be nice not to have to stage a virtual riot to get our issues addressed this time.
Something needs to change for sure.
I personally dislike Shadow Crash and Void Torrent and I hate how you practically have to select one or the other (or both) in order to reach some of the good talents at the end of the tree. I know they are good abilities, I have used them, but as it stands now I already have enough buttons to press.
#removevoidform
wall of text hits you for 43,984
Where is the nerf nuking destro out of orbit into Affliction level performance being reverted? I see no blue post.
Postponing is not reverting.
found this macro (credits to Method)
Searing Nightmare Channeling or Shadow Word: Pain Macro
Casts Searing Nightmare if you’re channeling Mind Sear or Shadow Word: Pain otherwise.
#showtooltip
/cast [nochanneling: Mind Sear, @mouseover, harm, nodead][nochanneling: Mind Sear] Shadow Word: Pain
/cast [channeling, talent:3/3] Searing Nightmare
very useful. Makes SN less of a pain
No, it’s still a pain. That just eliminates some button bloat.