Shadow QoL + Slight Rework ( edited )

Who said anything about mass AoE dot application ? I never mentioned in that post how many targets I had in mind, and in previous posts I already said that I would love for it to be around 11-12 targets so 1 target from manual application and then spread to 12 additional targets that is literally taking something that exists and improving on it as per your words.

The DP idea would introduce same restrictions in PvP that you mentioned to me so no idea how all of a sudden you forgot about your own projected issues ?

But even then I am not hell bent on it being there it can literally be anywhere in the priest tree as a choice node or a standalone kind of thing.

This is literally what you just said, taking an ability and without adding damage to it, changes the way you interact with the spell and changing the way you play in some situations. It literally makes your rotational game play more fluid and less clunky.

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I did.
Forget the word “mass” if that bothers you as that can be perceived as subjective.

But my point was I prefer to stick with what blizzard have already established with dot application and not dot spreading.

The current model works, it’s just poor mechanical spell delivery system is gumming up the works causing annoying and frustrating issues.

So I focus on fixing the problem and less on trying to go with a different approach altogether.

I was referring specifically to your approach to things like this…

I disagree with blizzard adding extra damage to Mind Flay for picking Mental Decay.

Tacking on damage is dull and boring.

So any route to add damage just to add damage is not something I agree on.

But the thing is that no it does not work its not just clunky and causing issues it just doesnt work altogether, it was hastily patched together making it some sort of a abomination that neither works nor provides any satisfaction from interacting with and again dont want to bash you but you would know that if you actually played right now.

See the whole point of adding some extra dmg to that particular talent is to provide some incentive for manual doting and redoting, almost every1 who plays a DoT class right now agrees that the times have changed especially in m+ environment and you cannot allow a class to not do any damage because its putting dots as it falls miles behind all the burst classes and usually there is no way to recover from that.

So its not putting dmg just for the sake of it as you think it is, but then again you would knew that if you did play the game.

You really need to quit with the attitude.

Since you seem so bent on the fact that my playing experience is an issue then you need to properly define the precise moment when enough gameplay time and experience is sufficent in your mind to not resort to bringing that up anytime someone disagrees with you.

So lets hear it, how much time and experience does it take for you to not resort to off brand tirades when you come across disagreement?

Since you like to be exact and precise as you have very heatedly made quite clear, lets see your prognosis on this front.

As I mentioned before, you can see how things work right out of the gate playing the class. It doesn’t take much work to figure out the flow of the spec.

During most pre-patch events, people can figure out the new way to play a class without having to do any serious content because it doesn’t take that level of effort to understand how a class/spec plays. Especially when you have over a decade of experience in knowing how the class/spec works and hundreds of days worth of game time experience. When new features get added, its easy to incorporate and understand when you are used to the rest of how the class plays.

So you need to stop with the nonsense deflection and provide the bare minimum amount of game time and experience needed to keep you focused on the task at hand.

Like I said already it was not meant as a way to out right discredit disagreement but rather the merit of that disagreement, you would not be disagreeing with those things had you had the experience.

As to how much experience it would literally take 1 or 2 dungs in a 15-20 ish range with some burst specs alongside to realize that there is nothing else you can do because the way your spec is designed is holding you back and that it just plays awful, there is almost no fun in it left.

Except you cant because you are not taking into the account skill level and most importantly scaling with gear, some things that look not that bad in the beginning of an expac usually get worse with better gear and other players being more skilled in higher level content further widening the gap.

So yeah no nonsense deflection there it is all based on the experience and like I said many times you can believe what you want like in your case but until you have direct experience it only stays as a belief and I did not come here to argue beliefs as that is pointless.

Right okay, so according to your logic, only people that have played a spec above a 14 M+ dungeon has any right at all to weigh in on how a class/spec feels and any input they put forth is instantly disregarded and trashed and should not be considered because they are irrelevant to the conversation.

I asked you to be precise and state the bare minimum. So you did that and now you cant walk this back. That is the bare minimum and as such I should never weigh in on anything class related unless I have met that minimum criteria you just laid out.

Or…

You don’t know what your talking about and you see the folly of what you just stated.

Those are your 2 choices.

Choose the first and I will be done with this conversation because clearly any words I say is pointless and meaningless because I don’t meet the minimum criteria.

And if that is the case, I suggest you mention in your opening post that only “qualified” people are welcomed to partake in the conversation and others should read only and to state the exact minimum qualifications to partake in said topic.

As I mentioned before, your trying to gatekeep and you have just proved it now.

Please stop hoping you’ll get through to it with logic. This is what every thread attempting to fix shadow priest looks like. The unhinged contradictory ramblings of a volatile loser who insults everyone and then plays the victim when you call him out.

The guy is mentally unstable, he doesn’t even play the god damn class. No sane person spends hours of his day trolling the forums of a class he doesn’t play. So ignore his psychotic manifestos and respond only normal people.

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I don’t know why your still posting either, you don’t meet the qualifications to be contributing to this thread as well.

So you can agree with his statement and be treated just like I am or you can push back and both of you drop this nonsense and speak on ideas and not people.

But I already know what your going to do.

See you just told me that I should stop with the attitude, how about you stop with all your projections, mental gymnastics and overemphasized issues, how about that huh ?

You are making this be black and white kind of thing which almost nothing in life is like that.

Point me to where exactly I said that unless you have this experience you can start posting feedback or else its worthless and you should not bother.

I have only pointed out to you that some specific things you would not have a proper clue about unless you had the experience which is how life works, are you really going to be arguing about that ? Would take opinion of some1 who has never drank beer before or did it 5 years ago on how they should totally not change the recipe because there is nothing wrong with it ?

I am not gate keeping anything, I am gladly taking any feedback as can be seen by me editing the OP and clearly admitting on some things, but some specific things you just dont have clue about and act as if you had which is hella annoying.

See I would love to engage with some actual feedback and come up with ways to take the spec to next lvl but Aneurysm seems to be the only one providing at least some sort of feedback on what I wrote, and that feedback actually did make me consider some other options and come up with other ways of doing things so it is not entirely useless.

Let me ask you this, do you think I don’t have ANY experience in M+? Meaning what are we talking about? This season? This expansion? M+ in general?

Since you seem to both want to be precise and exact (your words) and yet you don’t want to be black and white (your words) then what is it?

If you are going to bring up a personal issue because you disagree with the idea then you need to substantiate that EXACTLY to back up why the personal issue is even an issue to begin with.

I already told you that many posts ago: CURRENT EXPERIENCE as in this season or the bare minimum last season. I dont think that you dont have ANY experience in M+, I just think that you dont have current experience.

This game changes so rapidly, for SP it is especially apparent last two xpacs so in order to have an accurate view of some SPECIFICS you do require CURRENT experience.

I am just baffled how that would elude any1.

I do want to be precise and exact thats true but there are times when I make more general statements and you seem to not be able to distinguish between the two, and then you project so I would suggest working on that 1st or if you are unsure just ask what the person meant ? Like that is basic communication skill.

Lastly you still have not pointed out where exactly I said what you have accused me for, so I am waiting.

And what makes you think you didn’t start this from the beginning?

YOU are the one that came at me for not commenting specifically on your statements when i made general statements.

YOU are the one that keep telling me to read everything when I summed it all up in a general statement.

YOU are the one that has been taking issue when I made general statements and you think it applies to a specific thing you said and forgot it could apply to another thing you said.

YOU are at fault for this. But I am the one to blame?

I suggest you make your requirements known in your opening post to filter out any riff raff that doesn’t meet the proper qualifications to weigh in on a topic that you deem needs a proper level of “relevant” experience or else you are just wasting your time and will end up questioning their legitimacy in even speaking on such issues.

Just so you know, often an outside perspective is better then one that has been indoctrinated with the rest and become an echo chamber of people smelling their own farts.

Word of advice, judge ideas, not the status of the one sharing said ideas.
If you can do that, I will continue this. If not, then there is no reason for me to stick around.

Sure I did all of that as a result of you only focusing on the issues and not being able to see any improvement ( which there were many ) painting all of it as bad ideas, so you can only blame yourself for that.

I have many times tried to steer it the other direction hence why me insisting on reading all of the material etc. But still this does not get through.

I am well aware of all of that hence my last reply to Lucael and hence my edit of the OP,
but still you are the one focusing only on the bad and then blaming me for the respones.

Get your story straight do you want to provide genuine feedback then do so but be aware that you might not understand some reasoning behind a proposed change ( just like in the Mental Decay talent that I have proposed, you just flat out stated that you dont like adding dmg to talents just to add dmg to talents and rejecting the idea without understanding or even bothering to understand or to question the reason for it, which makes you disingenuous ).

BTW I am still waiting for you to point out where exactly I said what you have accused me for.

Oh?

okay…

My first post sums up all 3 of your ideas AND I mention at the end that I have my own vision on how to treat the rest of your ideas (included in my feedback post)

Then you followed up by already making an insulation that I did not comprehend your opening post and because I left out 1 thing (the 15 sec internal cooldown) because you mentioned Misery and I didn’t equate that as having an internal cooldown as Unfurling Darkness did as I just cant fathom why that would be a good idea), I looked over it.

So your first response to me is already calling into question my legitimacy when i made BROAD GENERAL statements that can be attributed to ALL 3 of your ideas as they are VERY similar.

So then I clarify saying if your format was better, then it would be easier on the reader.

If your going to write something and expect it to be consumed and digested in the way you intended it to be, it doesn’t help when all your ideas mash together with very little separation when an outsider is not in your head and is reading them at face value and trying to understand what you are trying to convey.

Its not the reader at fault, its the writer, it always is the writer that needs to appeal to a broad section of readers else the writer will only get a trickle of interested readers which is not economically viable in the long run.

So when I lend helpful advice to restructure your format, you take offense.

Then you begin your character assassination attempt on me and ack like a bozo with the other bozo thus beginning the derailment of your thread. Derailment you initiated.

Then you start with personal attacks…

Fast forward with a lot of back and forth of just nonsense that I have to clean the record with.

Then more of this…

When my initial statement covers your entire post IN GENERAL.

Then you pester again with this…

when again, my initial statement covers your opening post IN GENERAL

Then we go into the details of the failure of an uncontrollable single target required spell doing AOE effect causing issues in PvP.

Then you finally come back to the focus of discussing ideas and not judging ones status.

Then I make statements that somehow you thought it had anything to do with you when your stance was the other part of the statement and I was forced to clarify because YOU FAILED to comprehend that the statement I made was how things currently work vs what you propose to work (Dot application vs spreading).

^ you failed to comprehend my statement and took it as some slight against you.

And then your back to derailing the conversation because you rather focus on WHO is saying the statement and not the CONTENT of the statement.

I disagree with ideas
I agree with ideas.

I don’t give 2 craps who posted those ideas. I don’t care for their name or anything about them. I DO NOT CARE.

I care about an idea that is good or an idea that is bad and I don’t care at to the authority of the person who posted the idea.

If you don’t like my idea, cool.
If you like my idea, cool.

But when you tack on and question why I even have the idea that I have in that it comes from a place of misunderstanding then YOU are gate keeping.

If you don’t like or disagree with something someone said, then it should remain on what they said. NOT if they have the authority to say it.

If that’s how you want to proceed, then good luck. Because I will not.

My bad I wasnt specific enough in my question. I wanted you to point to where I said this:

Because that is projecting hard and you know it.

No your 1st post sums up ONLY my 3 ideas in regards to dot application method with no
feedback in regards to QoL changes proposed other then " I have my own ideas ", while also misrepresenting it by not reading through properly by saying this:

And after that I have kindly replied that you misunderstood me to which you responded with blaming me for the way I have written the post, so right from the get go you were the person that started the blaming game.

Then you proceeded with further misunderstanding as to VT having a CD.
After that when I made a general statement about requiring CURRENT experience with the game and class as to be better able to comprehend the positive side of proposed changes rather then seeing only downsides, you lashed out and projected hard with this:

And then you wonder why I reply the way I reply.

The only reason I did that is because you have disregarded my idea without understanding the reason behind it in the 1st place by saying this

When I clearly explained to you that it isnt adding damage just to add damage, I have expressed the exact and precise reason for it yet doesnt seem to get across either.

You need to hold up a mirror to yourself.

You are everything you seem to have problems with and take it out on others.

This is a broad question.

This is specific criteria as an answer to a broad question. But what it is not is a specific answer to a specific question.

But then you walk it back with this…
This being a specific answer to a specific question that I do not ask. You inserted your own question to answer because you did not “comprehend” the question.

You are making a broad statement but in a way where you are trying to make it about a specific criteria which in this case is the AOE aspect. But that both was not in my question nor in your answer.

If you had better reading comprehension skills and you were “exact” and “precise” then you would have provided the proper answer. But instead you walked it back once I displayed how folly your answer was.

This is why extremes exist and why they are helpful. They are a way to measure the path/trajectory you are on and where it will eventually lead if you let it play out.

I put forth such a case and you knowingly or not just walked right through it because you are too focused on authority in “status” instead of genuine ideas.

There is a saying, smart people learn from their mistakes, wise people learn from the mistakes of others.

This means that you do not have to have the same experience as someone else to come to the same conclusion and come up with a possible solution.

Or we can look at Isaac Newtons quote…
“If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.”

Meaning we can achieve much because of what came before. I don’t need to follow in the same footsteps at someone else to come to the same conclusion, I merely have to work where they left off.

So your constant position of authority is just flat out wrong. Just because YOU cant make heads or tales unless you experience first hand does not mean OTHERS suffers from that limitation.

So back to my position, I have a different view… but my view is NOT related to lack of experience as you want so bad to believe. It is just a different way to look at the situation and come to a different solution.

What you want is to force me to agree with your position because you think I lack “something” and if you can only convince me that I do indeed “lack something” then I can come around to see your point by submitting to your authority.

Stop using status and experience to judge positions.
Judge the ideas themselves separate from the person saying them.

Once again, you are demanding that I give you a response that you want.
I gave the response I gave because YOU have your idea. fine cool. but I have my idea. fine cool. We each have ideas. I DO NOT CARE about your idea when I LIKE MINE MORE.

I only comment about things that I think are BROKEN and need FIXED or addressed. That is why I comment on your AOE idea because it will cause issues. I have nothing to say on your other ideas because I just have a difference of opinion. THAT IS A VALID ANSWER. Get off your high horse if you think and demand otherwise, YOUR NOT GETTING IT.

YES
It is on the writer to make clear and concise material.

You need 2 things for a good design or in this case writing.
You need ACCURACY
You need CLARITY

I take no issue with ACCURACY.
But the CLARITY could have been improved.
Your format sucks when you are trying to SEPERATE out points. You cant honestly think it cant be improved do you?
They way it was written, it all bled together. The ideas were so similar and you were not clear on one vs the other because from the outside looking in, I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IS IS YOUR MIND. So I can only put what I was given together and come up with the best output I could given the content.

But even if your clarity was good or you think it was at least, that still does not justify your response in starting the personal attack and beginning of your attempt at character assassination.

That is equivalent to saying something on social media and someone says your writing sucks and then going after that person to get deplatformed and discredited and ostracized from society to be treated like a pariah.

Legitimate criticism was offered and you decided to take it the wrong way and go all crazy about it calling me a troll and sad and pathetic.

You instigated this entire derailment. I was only a passenger on the ride refusing to get up off my seat.

If I was told my writing was difficult to understand, I would be thankful and I would see how I can improve. I would rewrite it and see if it helps the reader because its about the reader more than the writer. So its the writers role to cater to the reader.
But then again, I actually care about making clear and concise points.

Just because I called you out for instantly going the troll route when you received criticism you didn’t expect nor appreciate. Again, grow up.

You felt that derailing the topic… YOUR topic was the right call and justified because I didn’t give you the response you were looking for? And you still think you are not demanding the right response? So what, you don’t get what you want and decide to derail your entire thread? Are you treating your thread like a hostage and if your demands are not met then you take one out?

Bravo /clap

I don’t care what you think you did or what your opinion is or how you classify damage as pointless or not. I explained my stance in a general term and at least one of your examples fit the criteria that I see as damage for damage sake.

And just so we can be “Clear” and “Concise” and “exact” this is what I am talking about…

^ Damage for damage sake. That is not needed. That is not interesting. That is boring and dull.

Probably others, but you get the point.

DAMAGE FOR DAMAGE sake is boring. There is no interaction with what you written there. It doesn’t change anything regarding making a spell do something different or prioritizing a different spell use.

You cant force someone to give you the feedback you want when I just don’t have anything to say or flat out just don’t like the direction. Deal with it.

Well that is simple to answer, the whole time I thought we were talking about how my idea of new Mental Decay talent is IN YOUR OPINION damage just for damage sake, when in fact it is not and you would probably see it had you had the experience I was referring to, hence precise answer to a broad question, but it seems like we were talking two different things here :open_mouth:

See another misunderstanding here the second time I brought up the experience thing was not related to the AoE aspect anymore but to MY IDEA of Mental Decay talent.

That is true but only because you are looking at this PARTICULAR talent as is presented not the WHOLE picture of how it would work with other talents and changes proposed, while I am seeing bigger picture meaning:

You can choose misery with this new Mental Decay talent or

You can choose cascade with new Mental Decay talent.

Each has its pros and cons and you choose based on the situation or preference, each choice changes the way you are going to play how is that boring and dull ?

At the base of it all lies the issue of how current meta looks and plays, meaning if you have too much down time due to how your spec is designed and no way for you to catch up in certain situations, then you are holding your group back and no1 wants to do that.

Anyway I would like to thank you for all the feedback that you have provided it helped me navigate better in the direction I would like the spec to be taken, while also stimulating some new ideas.

I am sure we will get Void Eruption as AoE spender or some variation of it because it would be so cool, hopefully soon.

You should read the talent tooltips in all the trees.

I can’t think of a single talent in any class or spec tree across the board that is to bland and dull by itself because it needs other “pieces” to make sense.

They are simply not built that way.

If you are a new player, you need to be able to navigate the talent trees easily enough where you don’t need to look up guides just to comprehend what you’re looking at. It should be easily understood almost instantly.

Talents that are required like Shadowy Apparitions grant the ability to spawn Shadowy Apparitions. So when you get other talents that build off from it, it makes sense because it’s already established earlier on.

But you are offering this talent that as you read, it just adds damage.

No interaction, nothing changes in to our rotation because it was already predefined by an entire different talent.

That is a horrible direction for talents to take.

Might as well combine it all in a single talent. Even then I would not like it but it’s better than it being nothing interesting on its own.

Again, you just demonstrated that you are too fixated on your head canon that you refused to take into consideration the reader or in this case, the User of the talents within game.

These talent trees need to be easy and simple to understand that a massive broad appeal to all players will grasp quickly without trouble or comprehension issues.

I put myself in that mindset when I think up my talent interactions and judging others.

If it’s not crystal clear simple easy to understand and grasp without questions, then it at the very least has room for improvement for clarity sake if not outright a complete objective failure.

Please clarify what do you exactly mean by that ?

What is hard to understand about the options proposed by me ?