Makes more sense. Rooted in lore.
Let the spec use glaives. Now more than 1 classes can use glaives 
Give us serpent totems and Big Bad Voodoo for Ultimate.
Way cooler than “totemic”
5 Likes
I was just about to make the same thread but searched and found yours. Yes please! Shadow Hunter is so iconic. Since a lot of Hero Specs are themed after WC3 hero units Farseer, Keeper of the Grove, Dark Ranger, etc.), why not Shadow Hunter? It’d be perfect for us troll shamans.
Ion asked for feedback in his presentation, so this is mine. This would make me excited for Hero Specs. Shadow Hunter, an option for Restoration and Elemental shaman.
3 Likes
Shadow hunter could potentially bring back chain harvest too…
But I would think enhance would be one of the associated specs.
You could be right. I was thinking Searing Totem (which is basically Serpent Ward) was an Elemental thing, but wasn’t thinking about the throwing weapon. They could make it the Enhancement/Restoration option. I would take that as well. Would be cool if one of the talents gave us throwing weapons (which I think should make a comeback anyway). I don’t care which of either Totemic or Stormbringer gets replaced. I just think having both Farseer and Shadow Hunter as hero specs would be amazing for us.
I posted this in the General thread for all specs, but I wanted to share it here as well to see how you all feel about this idea:
I think this would be a lot more exciting than the current options. Is there another Hero Spec idea that you think is more deserving than these three?
1 Like
The Hero talents are not doing what you want them to do.
We have no reason to think they are going to change play styles, change weapons used. We have no reason to think they are going to delete current spells and add new ones.
From what we were shown with druids they augment current spells, giving passive buffs.
It will be something like “when you drop a totem you gain 3% damage/healing for 10 seconds”
They are just an extension of our current trees without making those current trees bloated.
3 Likes
Despite shaman being available to the Alliance, I feel like drawing on the original Horde iterations from WC3 make for the best choices.
It all really depends what they are trying to do, but if they open Shaman to ever race like they did warlock, Shadow Hunter could also be utilized by Night Elves lore-wise who use Ancients similar to how Trolls use Loa.
I would opt for something like this:
Shadow Hunter (replaces Totemic - used by Enhancement/Restoration)
- unlocks Glaive weapons for Enhancement
- mixes ideas drawn from Witch Doctor and Shadow Hunter units from WC3
- largely focuses on utility through totems, and support abilities like Big Bad Voodoo
Witch Doctor Abilities WC3
Shadow Hunter Abilities WC3
Far Seer (repurposed to be like Stormbringer, used by Enhancement/Elemental)
- draws ideas from Shaman and Far Seer units from WC3, focuses on augmenting damage abilities of enhance and elemental
- This would work on empowering their elemental abilities
- Earthquake and Earthshock join Enhancement’s tool kit, while Feral Spirits join Elemental’s tool kit
- Could see overhauls to Lightning Shield, allowing it to be placed on others and do proximity dmg like its original form
Shaman Abilities WC3
Far Seer Abilities WC3
Spiritwalker (replaces Far Seer, used by Elemental/Restoration)
- focuses on utility and defensive capabilities of range casters
- utilizes and expands on ideas relating to the spirit side of shamanism, using spiritwalker and tauren chieftain units wc3 - as Tauren brought the more spiritual side to modern day shamanism
- purge upgrade to disenchant
- augments made to spirit link
- an aura that increases ally movement speed and casting speed
- reincarnation returning you to 100% HP automatically upon death
- A battle rez usable on allies
1 Like
Agreed, we have nothing to really go off of besides what they showed for Druidism.
But there is precedent, even if forever ago, of shaman having a talent that changes their weapon style (first 2hand, then dual-wielding). As a passive part of something else, you could unlock Glaives for a Shadow Hunter themed hero spec for Shaman. I don’t think this is a stretch for what they are capable of doing. (If they are willing to do it is a different story).
My biggest concern is seeing a tree called Totemic.
Totems are incredibly outdated as a mechanic, and nothing short of a full on overhaul to them is going to make something like a tree dedicated to the idea of totems feel good. We already have talents like Winds of Al’akir that are laughable, because most totems aren’t out for longer than 15-20 seconds, significantly shorter in PvP, making the movement speed given by having 3+ totems a laughable boon.
I could see however, certain spells getting augmented. If you look at Elune’s Chosen, boundless moonlight isn’t replacing spells, but certainly augmenting them. That’s something that could easily be done on the shaman class — using purge and disenchant as an example — we already have purge and greater purge as options in class tree — what if a hero talent went further:
Purge now removes one additional buff from targets within X range of your initial target.
Base Idea: Disenchant from Spiritwalker WC3 unit http://classic.battle.net/war3/orc/units/spiritwalker.shtml
I can definitely see something like this happening, when there are currently spells for druid showing that Treants will now cast Moonfire every X seconds, etc.
The names of the current specs however don’t instill much confidence in what we will be seeing:
Stormbringer - most likely storm focused dmg augments for Enh and Ele
Far Seer - Most likely utility augments for Elemental and Resto
Totemic - Most likely totem based augments for Enhance and Resto
Totems are already incredibily divisive in the community.
1 Like
Its not a stretch. But the only information we have now, is that this is not their intention with hero talents.
But we do have 2 specs of shaman that regularly drop totems as part of their core rotation. It could simply be “when you drop a totem 10% dmg/healing increase for 10 seconds, ICD 30 seconds”. And it would fit seamlessly into the current rotation, while being pretty on par with what we’ve seen so far.
I can see something like this happening, mechanically. But dear lord, I hope its not this specific 
It will most likely be play power based. A way to spread flame shock, riptides, making abilities cleave, or adding a debuff to ae abilities.
I would argue one spec drops multiple regularly, and the other is forced to drop 1 every minute — Totems really are just a restoration thing at this point, with Enhance forced into Windfury (yes there are more Enhance uses, but they are not nearly as relevant as Restoration’s totems).
But I agree with your ideas of how a totemic could work — it is just incredibly unexciting, as already shown by Winds of Al’akir.
I would say that the entire thing isnt meant to be “exciting” in the sense of creating subclasses, or drastically changing how you play. Nothing we’ve been shown (to me) says that is the direction they are wanting to take.
Like 90% of the trees arent exciting as it is, and this is just a continuation of trees. So I expect 1 node to be “exciting”, in that it majorly augments a current spell. And everything else to be pretty low key passive buffs to that.
Yep, this also makes sense.
I just look at Totemic from a pvp mindset, which is probably incorrect. Any benefit we get should be a buff to the shaman, and non-dispellable.
5 hp totems are fun!
That said, if you look at shaman abilities through various Warcraft media, you CAN get some interesting things
Sentry Ward - Your totems now pulse every X second, allowing you to see invisible targets within range for X seconds.
( Sentry Ward - WC3)
Totemic Retribution - When a totem is destroyed it creates an additional effect based on its element
- Earth: Stun for X second
- Frost: Reduce Atk Spd/Cast Spd/Movement Spd
- Fire: DoT
- Air: Knockback or Knock up
(Stasis Trap - WC3, Stoneclaw Totem)
Colossal Totems
- Increase the area and duration of your totems by 50%, and their health by 25%
(Reghar - HotS)
Grounded Totem
Passive: Increase Earthbind Totem’s range by 50%
Enemies in Earthbind totem’s area also have their attack speed slowed by 25% and spell power reduced by 15%
(Reghar - HotS)
Wellspring (Would need a different name)
Every 2 seconds, Earthbind Totem will cast an untalented Chain Heal at the nearest allied hero with the lowest health. This chain heal heals for 35% of its normal amount.
(Reghar - HotS)
These are all decent enough starting points for iteration on how to adapt these ideas into the mmo gameplay.
These would be PVP talents, not over all talents. If these were implemented as hero talents it would basically ruin shaman for the next 7 years.
Everyone else gets 10% more damage and better burst windows. Shaman get another stun, or detect invis.
Again, these are starting points based on previous things seen in shaman in various warcraft media.
Stoneclaw had a stun attached to it when things attacked it, which was actually really useful for tanking an extra mob back in the day. Stasis Trap in WC3 was a stun, which is just another form of CC…not just useful for PvP (unless you think things like Freeze Trap, Polymorph, Wyvern Sting, Repentance, HoJ, etc. are pvp only).
As for totems doing something upon destruction, what they actually do can be anything that might impact the class in a positive manner.
Sentry Totem is certainly more niche, but something asked for over the years. They could also start adding more stealth npcs, like they had in TBC’s Blood Furnace (etc.)
But anything not specifically adding direct player power, will hold the class back.
This is akin to adding more talents to your spec tree. Utility is your class tree.
Not necessarily. Coefficients to abilities can always be adjusted across the regular talent trees and base class abilities if they decide to go a more utility route with the shaman hero talents.
Balance in terms of class dmg/healing throughput is always the last thing they do.
So for example, if at level cap, with hero talents, a single class is behind in damage, that class can be tuned upwards to match the rest through various means: not just hero talents.
If every talent in Totemic is solely going to be leaning into player power, you are gonna run out of ideas very quickly — I would be hard pressed to not see something that increases totem radius, which in turn…is a way to increase player power, by expanding the range of your totem effects.
Augmenting spells and giving passive buffs is all it takes to deliver Shadow Hunter though. As Glocksleeve said, we’ve already had weapon skill talents in the Enhancement tree before. This is how we got the beautiful two-handed windfury build in classic, and the duel wielding build we still have today. A passive talent that unlocks warglaives would change practically nothing about how the class plays and would mostly be cosmetic. However, a passive skill that unlocks ranged weapons wouldn’t be out of line from what we already can do. Ascendance already turns Enhancement shaman auto attacks into ranged attacks.
A talent that augments Searing Totem into Serpent Totem is also all it would take.
Chain Heal/Healing Wave are already perfectly thematic with Shadow Hunter, so even a boring 3% bonus would do. Same with Hex. They could just make it harder to break or something.
Literally the only active spell they’d need to add to give us the whole class fantasy is Big Bad Voodoo. I don’t think one new active spell is too much to ask for.
Which…one again…goes against every single bit of info we have received.
We have no reason to think hero talents are just going to be class utility/pvp talents. We have 100% of reasons to believe they are going to be player power.
So far, with the knowledge we have received. A new active spell is too much to ask for.
They could completely change their philosophy. But they specifically talked about not wanting to add new active abilities.
And how to you quantify player power through totems?
Increased radius is directly increasing the power of the totem, even if its not directly increasing YOUR player power. A larger radius gives you better room to work with, less time replacing it, and allows allies to be in it at greater ranges still getting its effect. It’s essentially like old talents that increased the range of your lightning bolt or shocks — that too directly increased player power by giving you further distance to deal your dmg, even if dmg wasn’t the same.
In totemic, we will probably see things like
- totem mana cost reduction
- totem radius increases
- totem duration increases
- more on-use effects similar to Doom Winds, except in the form of buffs
- earth totem grants X for Y sec and so on
- potentially more totem health
You might even see some things from Torghast
Deathseer Choker — Each active totem increases your damage and healing by 5%.
Deathseer’s Satchel — Placing a totem causes you to drop another, random totem.
Heart of the Deathseer — Standing within 10 yards of a totem heals you for [ 3% of Total Health ] every 2 seconds.
Totemic Slam — Whenever you summon a Totem, it causes an 
Earthquake at its location.
Untaintable Waters — Targets healed by your 
Healing Stream Totem and 
Cloudburst Totem take 25% reduced damage for 10 seconds.
Vial of Soothing Waters — Healing Stream Totem and Cloudburst Totem healing amount increased by 100%.
Flowing Streams — When Healing Stream Totem heals a target, you have a 25% chance to also cast a free, instant Chain Heal at the same target.
We also need to look at what totems are shared between specs baseline:
- earthbind
This is the only totem that is baseline for all the specs
- tremor
- healing stream
- cap totem
- wind rush/earthbind
- poison cleansing
- stoneskin/tranquil
These are the rest that are shared between specs non-PvP
The only totem that offers any throughput is healing stream, and its defensive. The longest totem shared between specs lasts 30 seconds.
There are no baseline fire totems at all except a pvp talent totem.
So its difficult to say how Totemic might approach player power, or that it will only impact PvE totems (when there are no fire pve totems).
You can’t just have a totemic hero talent that is affecting windfury because only Enhance has it. You also can’t really have something like “When you place an Air Totem” because if its too strong, now you are gonna be using windwalk totem not necessarily when you need the sprint…and its adding an additional ability into your rotation. With most Totems being On-Use effects, tying them into player power feels weird — especially when the only player power ones that exist are for healing, PvP (Skyfury), or spec restrictive (Windfury).
Just more reasons I hope they pivot from totemic to some other aspect of Shaman.
I absolutely agree! Totems are essential part of shaman kit and forcing one shamans in better totem utility instead of picking a lore friendly/fantasy choice would be very sad to do.
And in my personal opinion and I bet other shaman nerds we surely need kor’kron hero spec where shaman takes darker twist with addition of decay magic to modify its kit!