Fried thread.
Seraphim was removed and Avenging Wrath was turned into a 1 minute cooldown so your 1 minute burst cycle is more impactful and your 2 minute one is less impactful.
Now instead of 1 minute mediocre and a 2 minute giga burst cycle, you have two normalized strong burst cycles.
JUst roll rogue dude and press slice n dice with combo points if u wanna keep up buffs
That has⌠nothing to do with what I just said.
you were hinting at it
Nah, your thread is just fried.
Avenging Wrath going to a 1 minute cd is a good change with Seraphim being lost.
Seraphim is a maintenance ability and it sucks.
Itâs as bad to press as inquisition was.
While I cant speak for legion and BFA because I didnt play prot during those xpacs.
SL and DF never used seraphim and good riddance too its a stupid ability.
your on heavy cope if you think wings will or should keep its duration and strength while on a 1min cd. thats just setting yourself up for a rage thread in the future.
it wasnt a maintenance ability. it had a 15 second duration on a 45 second cd. what part of that screams maintenance?
They donât like it because itâs not great to keep up as holy and itâs required no matter how you spec because of how powerful it is. Also, people donât generally like maintenance buffs.
I donât rage over class changes. If I did, I would have stopped playing Ret a very very long time ago
cool
10char
I just canât wrap my head around whatâs fun about maintaing a 15% flat damage increase buff, the buff is so boring and the playstyle behind it as well.
Itâs a stupid button and it needed to go.
Could be a nurf to wings but perhaps not.
Stacking Seraphim on top of wings was a huge damage boost. All of those stats are worth more than the base values on the tooltip because your amping damage that is already modified upwards by wings and/or FR for a few globals.
With wings and FR up your amping finisher damage that is 180% of base. 100 X 1.2 X 1.5 is 180. The mastery and verse boost is effectively 80% more effective in this window in terms of finishers and is worth more than base tooltip values for all other damage in the wings/seraphim window as well.
The 8% verse and 13% mastery (my tooltip) effectively boost a finisher from 100 to 122 thatâs a 22% increase. With wings and FR up you start at 180% of baseline damage, the increase from those two stats provided by seraphim pushes that finisher to ~220 (180 X 1.08 X 1.13). Thatâs a 40% boost compared to baseline, thatâs twice the damage added by wings alone over baseline in terms of finishers, when stacked. Never mind the crit or haste.
Instead of having 2 wings, into mini wings, into 2 wings. We just get wings every 60 seconds.
2 Avenging Wrathsâ> 1 mini wings --------->2 Avenging Wraths
1 Avenging Wrath-----> 1 Avenging Wrathâ>1 Avenging Wrath
We are currently getting (in terms of damage amp) ~4 wings and a mini wings in just over 2 minutes. This will go down to 3 wings in that same time period. Even if you drop it down to just over one minute we go from 2 wings and a mini wings to 2 wings. It wont be much of (if any) a DPS increase in a vacuum, could be a damage loss (more likely IMO). I think some are underestimating how much damage Seraphim added when stacked. Despite mastery only affecting finishers, if used properly during a burst window itâs not hard to see how it was roughly worth a set of wings.
Even if Seraphim is a 50% value wings when stacked and 25% value wings when not stacked itâs likely a DPS loss if this was the only change. Very easily could have room to increase sustain between wings even at 1 minute because of the loss of seraphim.
you got valid points here in your post. each very throughly researched and posted with care. however keep in mind there is no 1min cd in the game that does 30% damage and haste on a 25sec duration that can be extended well past 35 seconds.
I wouldnât dispute that. It could be reverted back to 2 minutes, I think thatâs probable at this point due to the lack of any patch notes stating otherwise.
But it wouldnât push our overall damage any higher. It is possible to balance around it. Iâm not âinvestedâ in keeping it at 1 minute though.
The damage amp Seraphim delivers is very high, the removal opens paths to significantly increasing damage in another way.
Maybe 1 minute wings isnât itâŚ
i wont dispute that, i liked seraphim but i welcome any change at this point 
i hope it stays at 2mins. because halved duration is also lame cause then your punished by downtime with madparagon extensions.
The ability is awesomeâŚ. Gives you a big boost to a few stats. The issue is, too many spenders. Jv (3) TV or FV (3) RD (3) DS (3) WoG (3) On top of that you add a buff that needs holy power and thatâs opone if not the main reason why is hated and feels clunky to press.
Uh⌠no.
Even the class writers are all just, âUse Seraphim on cool down, it doesnât particularly offer much to the rotation outside of damage.â
There is no saving Seraphim for a part of the rotation you want to âsuperchargeâ. You cast it on cool down then promptly forget about it again until it comes back off cool down. Thatâs it. Its pretty easy to see why its just yet another ability Ret doesnât need and it causes more button bloat.
Arguably keeping the talent where you gain Seraphim when Art of War procs would be more engaging than just casting the ability on cool down as soon as you have the holy power for it.
thats a gross understatement
you treat seraphim as a 1min cd, pair it with fr and dt then do big damn. you control where you want to make your burst mroe bursty. fr, seraphim, and dt do nothing alone. together they make your 1min burst profile. while ashes to ashes is more rng and you will have to hold your cdâs then let it rip when aow finally procs. like in sotfo
you cant just use it every45 seconds and forget it until next cd. sounds like you need to reread the wowhead and icyvein guides friend