Removing Seraphim before removing talents such as Seal of Order, Dusk and Dawn, Seal of Might and Seal of the Crusader is ridiculous.
And now you are toying around with the idea of adding 2x judgment debuffs per judgment?
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From what Iâve seen, the Paladin Discord is full of folks who disliked Seraphim. Itâs an ability that doesnât feel good to press, particularly because its a âspenderâ that uses three holy power that arenât being instead used for arguably more important spells. I feel that many of us are glad its gone and that the minuscule amounts of damage it offered are being baked into other abilities instead.
Iâm also not entirely sure what you have against the Seal talents, seeing as theyâre completely passive and more importantly donât use secondary resource to activate. I also donât have an issue with Dusk and Dawn, although I hear its fairly clunky on Holy. Perhaps you should properly explain why you dislike these talents?
Also, are you seriously complaining about Judgement increasing the damage of your next two holy power abilities? Really? I feel like this is a welcome change, seeing as Judgement was basically a poor manâs Colossus Smash, with none of the benefits. I am confused at your complaints, honestly.
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correction alot of passive andyâs dislike seraphim. a majority of ret mains dont care or feel that serpahim gives overal more control to what part of the rotation you want to supercharge.
you guys are also underestimating the strength of seraphim. its a 21% damage increase with multiplicative haste for 15 seconds when you wanted it. but yes i hope it is baked into our core abilities like they suggested in the bluepost
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I know some people didnât like seraphim because they didnât like how much prep ret had to do for burst/damage in pvp.
However I am very sad to see that get removed while Dusk/Dawn still remains. I feel like that was a very obvious choice to replace with DT, and if they want a new capstone then replace seraphim and SW with something new if they were going to remove it regardless.
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Sometimes they take away things some of us like. If the team delivers on a meaningful rework and Ret is more rewarding I think most players that liked the ability will forgive the loss of Seraphim. Doesnât mean we wont hear the voices of discontent on these forums.
I saw the back and forth in the other thread I donât think Iâll change any ones mind. I just hope itâs a positive rework overall, I think if they deliver it will be a win even for those of us that would have kept it.
I already assumed it would be gone after reading the initial statement regarding the Ret rework and modifiers. I donât have an issue with the removal, but I get the frustration from those that wanted to keep it. Wonât be pleasing everyone, at some point I may be unhappy about a change.
Just waiting to see the rough draft before I get worked up.
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I donât think itâs removal is a huge deal tbh. People will definitely not worry about it if the rework is good. Maybe seraphim just doesnât fit their rework of ret (thatâs basically what they said) so it had to go. Think thatâs fine. I definitely will not care despite liking it if the rework is exciting.
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Its kinda sad for prot tbh. Seraphim was one of the things that made prot paladin really fun in raids up until Dragonflight.
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Oh true didnât think of that but I am also hoping the other specs get some love here because the reshuffling of the prot tree was very very bad. We will see what happens I guess
Iâm of the opinion that the 1 minute build should be optional, and that the more our strength is spread throughout our standard rotation the better off weâll be in the long run. Weâre a glass cannon spec as is and it feels terrible to do anything without our CDs. Iâd rather only see our damage spike by, maybe, 20% during burn phases as opposed to as it is now where our burst blows everyone out of the water, but leaves us anemic 75% of the time.
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Prot paladin never used seraphim in SL or DF
Seraphim was just an easy direct removal and addressed an issue of button bloat and stacking modifiers on burst damage.
I too would like to see things like Dusk and Dawn removed, but one step at a time, and U can understand why Seraphim was the first to go.
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That should be what these new talent designs are for, the start of tree should be spec defining core talents, the middle should be somewhat generic but broadly style defining talents (AoE vs ST, specific ability focus like Judgment etc), and then the deep talents and capstones should be playstle defining like the 1 min build a more generic sustained spec etc.
They really dropped the ball on the potential for how these new talent systems could be taken advantage of lol.
You still can proc it with Ashes to Ashes so its not completely gone, they just toook out the talent.
Itâs good if it auto procs for a few seconds once in a while. Like if they gave us a nerfed version on every judgement for 4 seconds. Or if you got it for 8 seconds on exec sentence cast. But overall it adds too much to button bloat right now.
The way they âreworkedâ Prot pallyâs tree and ended up nerfing it in the process has me worried. The removal of seraphim is fine as long as we dont lose the little throughput we had before. Its prob gonna be a sh** show the first iteration of the talent tree in 10.7, but fingers crossed
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Also im really confused why people hate dusk of dawn so muchâŚit really isnt difficult to keep up time on it as long as your playing the class right and building and spending holy power correctly. It gives us a passive DR and dmg buff also so taking it away would make pallys even more squishy.
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Iâm not in love with these but comparing them to seraphim is ridiculous.
Seraphim provided no value to anybody but Rets and doesnât belong in the class tree.
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I have nothing against any talents, except for DnD because of its negative impact on your rotation.
Ret started with a 3 hopo cap that got increased to 5 for qol purposes. Now they want you to hit max and 0 to keep a buff up. No thx.
I did, what else were we to do with all that extra holy power from last seasons tier set. It was fun to see it and even more fun to see it on the meters. Alas, on to the cookie cutter build.
This is just not true. Prot paladin used seraphim in raid every single tier from legion to the release of dragonflight. We still want to use it, but sanctified wrath is just to strong so it was a dead talent with it being on a choice node.