I don’t think we know enough to say that with any certainty. The only other case of long-term mind control being effortless is the human mind-slaves that used to be in the Undercity. Trouble is we don’t know anything about upkeep of mental subjugation.
The scale we have is between the single mind slave and the entirety of the Scourge. We know because of the damage the Lich King sustained from Illidan’s spell that there is some degree of upkeep, but it’s neither greatly quantified or consistent because will power is just as much a factor as the quantity under your thrall.
It’s way too multivariate, considering Gandling’s power, the number of people he was trying to subjugate, and the strength of Voss’ own will. Because we intervened, it only means we stopped it, not that it would’ve indefinite otherwise.
She asks you to stop him before it finishes. He’s casting the entire time. You stop him before it finishes.
We know because the Lich King thrust Frostmourne from the Frozen Throne and began bleeding magical power.
Voss’s will didn’t seem particularly potent. Again, we had to interrupt the ritual before it was completed. Never-you-mind that she not so subtly implies that Sylvanas has her enslaved during BFA.
You seem to have embraced the Horde.
It seems my skills drew the attention of the powers that be. My servises were… “requested.” Did you catch the hidden meaning there? Sorry. Despite my profession, I’m not the best at subtlety.
Regardless, I know how to recognize an opportunity when I see one.
Meh. I can accept that the Val’kyr (only now apparently, since they sure didn’t give my undead cata-era rogue an option to be raised…I believe the opening quest text is simply 'RISE name Rise!) give souls the option to be raised as undead but nothing about that means they’re not mind-controlled AFTER accepting the offer to be raised. Some, like Lorash, it makes sense that no mind control would be required since he was bitter and psychotic even while living. Sira? Angry at Elune and vengeful towards Tyrande for ‘abandoning’ her? Sure. But not full-on ‘death to the living’, especially choosing to obediently serve the creep who just taunted and murdered her.
Delaryn? Well, I’m holding out the hope (however slim) that she accepted being raised and is only making a show of being loyal because she’s planning on (hopefully literally) stabbing Sylvanas in the back like Sylvanas tried to kill Arthas for what he’d done to her people.
This would explain why they hate the Alliance. Not why they decided to join the Horde. Based on this, they should be saying “F@#$ both of you!” and going off to do their own thing.
We have no idea how long Arthas wandered Northrend. For all we know, it took months for him to fully turn.
Chronicle 3 says he strikes down Mal’ganis (which is what goes down in the WC3 quest Frostmourne). Then “days later” he returns to slay his men, having been turned into a Death Knight himself. The, “The prince didn’t linger in Northrend. He rallied the rest of the Scourge to his side and prepared to return to Lordaeron.”
Oh agreed. Whether Forsaken are given a choice in returning or not, and whether one or two specific characters are being mind controlled are two separate topics.
Regarding the topic of long term mind control you mention Sira specifically and present what you believe to be characterization that strains your credulity as your reasoning. Rather than get into a discussion of how little we know about Sira let me approach the topic this way. Bad characterization and insufficiently consistent story are staples of the Warcraft universe. In light of that, wouldn’t we need to see something that specifically points to mind control to start floating that theory?
Particularly since the things this patch does show and tell us actually contradict mind control.
They’ve repeatedly given you explanations, and not really bad ones (except for Sira’s "because reasons*). You absolutely refuse to accept them. No one can make you but that doesn’t mean the one thing it has also been repeatedly confirmed that it is NOT is actually the case.
*For people who demand more from Sira, you’re not going to get it. Just like we’re never going to get any kind of real explanation for Maiev’s return to the fold in Legion. It happened because they wanted it to happen and they don’t care about whether it’s reasonable or not. You’re just going to need to find a way to tolerate getting “because I said so” as the only story for something happening, occasionally.
And what material would that be that isn’t contradicted by Devs repeated claims about what is canon? Blizzard’s primary theme is “Rule of Cool” not “logical reasonable scenarios that everyone can agree with.” Look at their best effort at presenting the latter via Sylvanas’ explanation for war to Saurfang in A Good War.
I would like to point out that an ultimatum is not a choice of free will and thusly the forsaken do not, and have never had free will.
Telling someone do what I want or we kill you does not make free will.
It’d be like robbing telling a guy to give you give your their life savings or you’ll kill them. Then claiming in court that he chose to die of his own free will when you kill him for not giving it up.
Also, going to point out that giving that choice to someone you yourself just traumatized (through the process of undeath) does not constitute free will either. It’d be like giving someone a lobotomy without their consent then asking them to sign over their worldly belongings to you. Nothing about forsaken society makes sense and basing it around ‘free will’ when they do things that explicitly remove free will from the equation is just… i don’t even have an analogy for that but its crazy wrong.
This is a case of blizzard and Sylvanas using the phrase ‘free will’ wrongly and I’d say it triggers ‘Death of the Author’ (It’s the opposite of word of god).
The only forsaken that ever really had a chance to make a real free will based decision in good faith without someone holding a gun to their head are the ones that broke away from arthas (and even this is shaky due to the trauma of undeath) and zelling whom was able to make the choice before suffering any trauma. (which is also arguable as he may not have been made completely aware of undeath’s side effects; idk haven’t played his questline yet).
Sure it is. Just because someone has managed to arrange things to your disadvantage, to make all your choices bad ones, doesn’t mean you don’t have free will. Freedom of will and freedom of action are entirely different things. Prisoners don’t have freedom of action, for example, but they have freedom of will. And people who have been heavily drugged might have freedom of action but not not necessarily freedom of will. Coercion doesn’t affect your will, it limits the outcomes of your choices.
You’re the one using it incorrectly. Particularly when you’re using it in a context which has literal “turned into a puppet” mind control.
They didn;t want to be undead anyway. Going back into the ground isn’t a threat, it’s a mercy. And other material makes it quite clear that they don’t have to stay and serve the Dark Lady, they can strike out on their own, join some other group if they wish. What they cannot do is stick around and interfere or attack the Forsaken. That gets you killed. Just like it gets those who interfere with or attack the dwarves, or the gnomes, or the draenei. There are signs that may be getting retconned now but it was certainly the case back in the Cata material that was being cited. They aren’t mind-controlled. They aren’t or at least weren’t enslaved (to Sylvanas or the Forsaken anyway)
Speaking generally on freedom of action, freedom of will, and coercion I made no comparative claims on what inflicts more suffering or is more approved of, nor do I care to venture onto that topic, I have no personal opinion and there’s nothing like consensus on it either. It’s also not the least bit relevant to the claim I was responding to. This isn’t even your goal post, don’t try and move it on another poster’s behalf.