Because they have nothing left and still want to believe it "isnt mind control:
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Sylvanas is totally mindcontrolling her undead but lets use the term “intensive brainwashing” in lieu of mind control. And lets add that they kill off anyone with the will power to say no to Sylvie’s service, often in front of the other resurrectees and using things like hot needles, knives and chemical weapons.
Youd be surprised what youd say yes to if the last person who said no had his teeth sawed out with a woodrasp and then was injected with a full dose of the latest blight.
Because it’s the same hill we’ve been having to defend, despite repeated messages from Blizzard (and even demonstrations SHOWING it, which Blizzard usually forgets to do) that the attackers are incorrect and making non-canonical claims, since Cataclysm launched. They’re not using mind-control.
Yes, it’s bad writing. But that’s not an excuse to just assert that instead what’s going on is the one thing which has been frequently both told to us and shown to us is definitely not the case. (at least until Blizzard retcons it, but they were clearly showing us they had not done so yet with material like Zelling)
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You know what. That’s fair, of course you have the right to criticize the story to date. I will say my point isn’t that you have no right, it’s that your criticisms now are going to be malformed and pointless.
But even if I think that, it is certainly not my place to ever give you the impression that your right to criticize is anything less than absolute. So you be you man.
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You’re mistaking “explaining to people with fundamental misunderstandings of the story” for defending. For instance it’s more clear than ever that it isn’t mind control. But if I were to explain to any of the people trying to flog that dead horse exactly why it isn’t mind control, it would likely be seen as a defense of “Sira/Delaryn turning traitor.”
Q: Why do some Alliance soldiers raised by the Forsaken immediately become loyal to the Forsaken while others do not? Are they being mind controlled? If so, by whom: Sylvanas or the Val’kyr? How does this relate to the fact that the Forsaken cultural identity is based on their free will and rebellion against the Lich King?
A: Free will is one of the cornerstones of Forsaken culture, with the great capacity for both good and evil that it entails. However, some undead, especially those who die in combat or under extreme stress and are raised soon after, enter into a violent, frenzied state. Undead in this state are easily manipulated and their rage is often directed at the foes of those who raised them. After the effects wear off, if the risen corpse has not been destroyed, they are given the same ultimatum that other Forsaken are offered: join the Dark Lady or return to the grave.
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No. We are just asking for an explanation because what they are telling us and what we are seeing in game defies all logic and reason.
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“Darn that Elune! She let the Horde kill my friends and family! This is unacceptable!”
adorns Horde logo
“COME HERE, COUSIN! I’VE GOT SOME BLIGHT FOR YOU TO DRINK!”
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I’m almost convinced that this entire storyline, such as it is, probably spawned from the devs going back and looking at Sylvanas’s old night elf model and going, “You know what? That’s cool. We’re gonna do that.”
“But it doesn’t make any sense.”
“Do it anyway.”
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Because they’re desperately trying to believe that waifu isn’t a hypocrite.
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We lack the necessary information to know if this defies all logic and reason. Just on the topic of Sira and Delaryn, we’d need to know a more about these two characters for one.
And this may seem unfair, but regarding the current dead horse of “Forsaken mind control” such hyperbolic claims make it hard to tell sincerity from the handful of fanatics who will claim almost anything is proof of Forsaken mind control.
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I sure love a healthy dose of ad hominem when the opposing side can’t defeat the argument.
Fact: Valkyr are casting mind control on Tyrande when Nathanos brags that she will share their (Delaryn’s / Sira’s) fate.
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I’m sorry that you’re confused, obsessively trying to interject yourself into other people’s conversations does not make you an opposing side of an argument. And that’s all the attention you get today from me little troll.
This is ad hominem.
The idea of mind control is a straw-man to misrepresent the motivations of the story and any attempts at explaining the narrative.
The only time mind control has been seen with the scourge, was in regards to Arthas as the Lich King, who with power of Frostmourne, Ner’Zhul and Kil’Jaedan were able to command the undead. It took immense power and focus to keep this up, as was evidenced in the wc3 campaign, When Arthas became weaker, so too did his hold on the damned.
Sylvannus on the other hand, has no such backing, no rune blade, no ner’zhul, no kil’jaedan. Her attempts at mind control are non existent. With the help of the Valkyr she is able to return a sole to its body, but she cannot force them under her will, and in the early days she didn’t have to. The advent of the foresaken in Wc3 she was seen as the peoples champ, and they followed her willfully, and she hasn’t changed course (despite maybe her desperate yearnings to be able to do so)
With any notion of mind control, lets address the notion that delaryn and friends genuinely wanted to become Undead. First off, the wardens are a shady bunch, they dance on the line between hero and villain moreso than most night elven folk would like. If Cordana is able to join with the legion, then is it really so hard to believe that delaryn would take up cause with her sworn enemy, given the right motivation?
Which brings us to the her motivating factors. Delaryn saw her life go up in flames, but that was not what pushed her over the edge. It was that she was abandoned. She gave her life in defense of a people she thought she knew and belonged.
Yet when her peoples most dire moment came, none of their heroes answered. Where was the alliance? where was malfurion? where was tyrande? And if Tyrande, high priestess of Elune was absent, what does that say about Elune, the very deity they worshipped. In her mind, it was that moment that she realized that not even the goddess cared for the slaughter of her people. Nathanos’ story parallels this somewhat in his contempt for the alliance, if you talk to him on the banshee’s Wail.
So in her mind, the greater of evils was not Sylvannus, but it was her perceived betrayl, by the alliance, by tyrande, and most notably, by elune. Those elements together, present a pretty convincing case in justifying her ‘sudden’ change in attitude.
One last point, ive seen mention the speed in which this happens. Well if you go back to Wc3, the last scene in the human campaign shows human arthas running into the wilderness of Northrend with Frostmourne. If you rememeber the last level, he still had all his paladin abilities.
Very next chapter, in the opening cutscene levels, he comes home, looking like death, and slaughters his father. From there he would dismantle the human defenses in lorderon and wipe out quel thalas.
MMO’s differ from RTS granted, but all the same, that transformation happened quite quickly. Also, the game eludes to perceptual time differences. Alleria and turalyon had been fighting a 1000 year war, in the time span from wc2 to present day WoW. This was explained as the perception of time in alternate dimensions.
Death itself is a dimension unto its own, as experienced by Sylvannus when she threw herself from icc. So what seemed like 15 minutes in Azeroth time, could have been a lifetime and then some for Delaryn.
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Darkmaster Gandling does it with relative ease.
I’m not sure reanimating constructs and minions with very limited mental faculty is the same as reanimating free-willed undead.
Refresh my memory, did Gandling reanimate or compel anything with free will? I can only think of Voss, and that was compulsion that was broken by the end of that fight.
Lilian Voss.
Yes, I mentioned Voss. That he could only temporarily compel her doesn’t make it obvious that it was ‘relatively’ easy, when the claim seems to be that newly risen undead like Sira are under a long-term mind control condition.
We’re the only reason he didn’t succeed in permanently enslaving her. We stopped the ritual from completing.