Seems like the Undead have a choice in the matter

Lore Story Forum
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This toy that indicates how unlikely it is that the wills of the living are being dominated?

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The Kirin Tor of Ambermill werent the main story. While I concede I look the other way at some poorly thought out sidequests you cant pull a Mary Sue in the main narrative and assume people will be ok with it.

This is litteraly the backbone of the expansion story wise, their trampling on lore with no real explanation and calling it mysterious. Bad writing is bad writing, this isnt a case of them leaving it open ended so players can fill in the gaps.

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43

I swear, whichever wretch at Blizz made the decision to ignore continuity should have been fired on the spot.

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44

Dark Wardens are not the backbone of this expansion’s story. And as part of the faction conflict they are a small part. Not literally, not even figuratively. That’s just giving this one plot development far more significance than it deserves.

As for bad writing being bad writing, I certainly agree with that truism. But since we’re still in the middle of the story, and have no clue where the story is actually going, I’m not prepared to call this bad writing yet.

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Not saying the Dark Wardens are the main plot hook the, the war is, but their in the story that pushes the main plot forward.

This whole “the story isnt finished yet” diatribe is pure tripe. You cant sit here and feed me cold chicken and tell me it might be warm on the inside to make me keep eating it.

The plot so far is bad, pure and simple. Could they have a real hum dinger of a twist that will put me on my butt (because a$$ is a such a terrible word apperently) lore wise? Sure but the writing up until this point shows no sign of that level of thought and I’m tired of people trying to defend it.

The only way we get better story is if we as the consumers are all on the same page and tell them we wont keep accepting this poor quality of writing.

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46

And in Cataclysm the main plot was also the war. And the mages of Ambermill pushed that plot forward.

Okay, you clearly have a strong opinion on this topic, and an affinity for metaphors. So lets use your metaphor, what if the cold chicken is warm on the inside? Or better still, what if the cold chicken is warm waffles on the inside? Delicious, warm, flaky waffles with just the right amount of cinnamon and maple syrup? And the cold, slightly greasy, chicken on the outside gives it this texture, flavor and temperature contrast that causes your mouth to explode in delight?

You’re welcome to say the chicken is bad, pure and simple based exclusively on the external temperature, or you’re welcome to say the chicken was bad up to the point where it turned into delicious buttery waffles. You’re even welcome to say the only way to get warmer chicken is if we, as consumers, refuse to order the chicken wrapped waffles.

But at the end of the day, people are going to order chicken wrapped waffles if the meal is good, and you’re not going to know if the meal is good without biting in, so my suggestion is that you stop obsessively fondling the outer layer of chicken as if that will tell you all you need to know about the quality of the food. If you’re really worried it will be terrible regardless, wait for your friend to order and ask him if he likes it but don’t sit here and tell me chicken wrapped waffles are disgusting when you haven’t had any or lecture me on the only way to get the chef to change his recipe when I don’t even think it needs to be changed yet.

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47

That’s. . .not actually helping your case. Because it doesn’t do a thing to establish it as either bad writing or a an in-game lie. I felt the exact same thing when I first saw the images of Brill destroyed, from datamining. It’s a purely emotional reaction and has not a damn thing to do with the writing, doesn’t indicate anything the least bit problematic with what you’re seeing.

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Up until 8.1, I was still operating under the belief that the Val’kyr couldn’t even raise non-humans, as had been established in Silverpine. So to see it happen, with no explanation, on a character I do have emotional attachment to, provoked a feeling of discomfort within me. Like, I wasn’t a normal emotional reaction. Teldrassil made me emotional, in a good way. It made me feel sorrowful, and angry at the Forsaken, and I was invested in the story. Seeing Delaryn and Sira didn’t make me feel that. It made me feel confused, and bitter. It made me question that Blizzard was actually capable of delivering a satisfying conclusion to BfA for Night Elf players. I wasn’t making an argument in that post. I was expressing a really deep-seated sense of anger, that I still struggle to describe. I would definitely consider it awful writing.

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49

The entire scene felt like it was a ‘test’ to see if it was even possible Nathanos even said and he could have just being sarcastic but ‘now that the preliminaries are out of the way’ like everyone aside from Sira on the beach were chosen specifically by Sylvanus to be raised if possible. That aside yes Sira and Dalaryn ‘chose’ to be raised. They haven’t given us justification for that choice yet but since when has Blizzard needed a reason to make something happen because of plot. I mean we’ve lost MAJOR lore characters (Rhonin) off screen only shown in books or in some cases not at all outside a snippet from a character (Korialstraz). I can understand the frustration because I mostly play Alliance but no degree of getting upset at people for having an honest discussion over lazy writing is petty and stupid.

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Um, are you accusing me of getting upset with people? Because I think I have been relatively polite thus far. I agree, attacking real life people over in-game events is pretty silly. I don’t think I have been doing that, and I don’t think most people in this thread have been doing that either.

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I have a similar visceral reaction to it. Though for me it’s less to do with investment in the characters or story and more to do with issues I take up on the meta level. Seeing blizzard make a conscious effort to repeat and mirror Sylvanas’ original allegorical story about an abuse victim reclaiming her agency from her abuser, and twist its message from that reclamation to “sometimes your victims secretly want it :smirk:” just absolutely disgusts me.

As someone who lived through years of all kinds of traumatic abuse myself the original story was one that resonated with me a great deal. And as it stands now just leaves me with pure undescribable revulsion.

So I recognize my issue with this story isn’t so much one with the narrative. It may very well be the case that Blizzard wants to tell nuanced story with their blunt old him hands. Or maybe we apply Occam’s Razor and assume people are right when they see a developer who claims free agency but nothing lining up reasonably with the story being told. Either way I am stuck back at the starting line disgusted that there are human beings currently employed at Blizzard who think the story they have put out isn’t beyond disgusting. Again not because bad things are happening in a story but because word of God is framing it as a valid message to convey in contrast to the original message that was put out in Sylvanas’ story.

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Seriously, out of all of the plotlines we have criticized in BfA, which is a repeat of Cata-MoP but worse, why does this continue to be the hill people die on?

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Its recent, which means its fresh in people’s minds. The undead Night Elves are just the latest in a long line of narrative decisions this forum has criticized. I’m sure we’ll move on to another topic when info about 8.2 comes out.

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Sylvanas was well aware she wasn’t getting backup when she faced Arthas. She specifically arranged the backup to head directly to Silvermoon so she wasn’t abandoned or betrayed by anyone except Darkhan and her rage towards him was great.

Sira expected reinforcements from Tyrande and had already felt betrayed by Maiev when she went on her hunt for Illidan. Delaryn saw Tyrande and her followers as part of Elune’s Faction so when Elune abandoned the Night Elves of Teldrassil to her knowledge…

Sira and Delaryn’s reaction was the same as Kael’thas’s reaction to the Alliance(anyone who read the Arthas Novel knows that he blamed the Alliance for Quel’Thalas’s fall) when they didn’t come to protect Quel’Thalas from Arthas’s attack. Kael’thas only returned to the Alliance due to desperation from there being no one else to turn to until Lady Vashj came with her offer.

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55

Fair point, I concede that. My willingness to accept poor story writing in the past dosent make me have to accept poor story telling in the future however.

Your saying I’m poking and prodding the product? Dude I bought the expansion I ate a good portion of that chicken. Still waiting for that gooey delicious waffle being advertised. Is it going to be this chicken or the next one? Will they update the chicken to include waffles after I already ate it?

The point is I’m evaluating the product in full as it currently is, which is the only way to evaluate the product because the “waffle center” at this point is all theory. And to say hey you dont know if you’ve hit it yet you just gotta keep eating that cold chicken is ludicrous. What’s that old adage? To do the same thing over and over again and expect diffrent results is insanity?

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In this metaphor the “waffle center” is the next two patches that are in no way theoretical. And it’s not ludicrous waiting to see not only how those two patches taste, but how the outer layer tastes in context. And while I love a good cliche as much as the next guy, there is nothing insane about having an open mind about what that next patch could be.

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Your point is we have no right to critisize the expansion because we haven’t seen all the patches yet I get that.

Mine is I have every right to critisize the product in front of me. Should those patches make the story better then I will evaluate them at that time. (The walffle core isnt the patch itself for me, it’s the expectation that it will fix or clear up the game/story that we’ve been promised over and over again and yet it seemingly gets more and more nonsensical and convoluted)

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“Because reasons” should never be a valid explanation in story-telling. Just going with it sends tells the writers that you’re okay with their sub-par explanations that may or may not completely redefine long established lore.

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Notwithstanding his later decision to ally with the Burning Legion (which pretty much everyone here seems to hate), Kael’thas never allied with the Scourge to destroy the Alliance. His anger at the Alliance was, to an extent, understandable. But it would have made no sense for him to ally with the very faction that slaughtered his people.

Sira and Delaryn have just made the decision to ally with the faction that slaughtered their people. This would be like Kael’thas, or Sylvanas, willingly allying themselves with Arthas. It makes no sense, and your analogy does nothing to salvage it, in my opinion. Sira and Delaryn feeling angry with Elune, or their people, could make sense, if written well. Their decision to fight for the Forsaken does not.

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I mean, why do people defend Sira/Delaryn turning traitor.

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