Secret mastermind behind the Cosmic War (Amirdrassil finale update)

There are 6 fundamental cosmic forces fighting for supremacy in Warcraft universe. - Light, Life, Order, Shadow, Death, and Disorder. Each of these forces wants to rule over the others.

To do so, they obviously need to control material world (The Great Beyond). This war has been in a state of stagnation for most of the time, but sometimes we can see advantage of one of the forces. An obvious example are the Titans and their ordering universe, followed by Fel with the help of Sargeras. Little would’ve changed in the balance of power if not for the creation of Dreadlords. Agents of Revendreth literally manipulated cosmos to their liking, weakening rest of the forces before the arrival of Death. Dreadlords: The Unseen Guests, you probably think I’m talking about them. But there is a force that even such narcissistic creatures consider as a worthy opponent. And without irony, they have done a better job than Denathrius children themselves.

I’m talking about Life.

You must be surprised to see here probably most boring cosmic force. However, I’m going to clearly explain to you, why I believe the most underestimated opponent turned out, to be the real winner in this Great War. To understand Life’s methods, I’ll quote motto of the Tyler family from the Asoiaf series, "Growing strong. In the novel, this family uses the tactic of slowly and secretly planting roots in a new place, from which they cannot be removed after a while. This is Nature’s greatest tactic. They enter someone’s territory, not being considered as a real threat. They slowly strengthen their position there, and when enemy finally sees real danger, it is too late.

The best example of Life manipulation is Death. These two forces are quite unique. The rest of the players with passion hate their opposites, but death and life exist in strange symbiosis. It looks more like Death is dependent on Life. Without its opposite, Shadowlands couldn’t exist (if it was reversed, Lifelands would have some problems, of course, but it wouldn’t disappear like SL without Anima), if you look closely, the whole afterlife system is designed to please Life. Our biggest clue here is Ardenweald. This dimension exists only to serve nature, all the rest of SL works to keep this one realm functioning properly.
I know that each of the opposing forces represent other side of the coin, but I can’t imagine demons being reborn in Titanlands or Old Gods sleeping safely in the land of eternal light.

I think SL has been conquered by Life and changed to work for them. Mr Mushroom himself said that SL used to look very different long time ago, so something big must have happened. That’s why I believe Life Pantheon decided to solidify their control over Shadowlands. They conquer all main realms and change one of the dimensions for the purpose of respawning their agents, set one of their own as a ruler, and promote her as one of the Eternal Ones. (We have strong indications that Winter Queen comes from outside SL) We also see former Night Warriors (Priests of Life) holding high positions in SL, such as Lady Stonehearth leading the armies of Revendreth. Thinking about the dominance of Nature raises some questions. Why they didn’t destroy Death completely when they had a chance? Destroying one force would cause great chaos, and why destroy something that can be controlled and used? Second, why didn’t they change the entire SL to their design? It’s easier to control someones who doesn’t know they’re being manipulated, instead they made that dimension dependent on them. If the Lifelands were directly in danger, Death would be the first to come to the rescue. They cannot risk losing the energy source necessary for their existence.

The second force infiltrated by Life is Order. Thanks to Eonar. So far, only Nature has managed to take over the souls of the world, which once again shows the cleverness of nature. I believe this Titan was infused with essence of Life just like Old Goes wanted to do with Azeroth. Perhaps Titans didn’t see it as a bad thing, as I said Life is not aggressive in its actions, it slowly achievs its his goals without alerting enemies. Having a Titan on your side is a big win, but they didn’t make her a slave to their plans as Old Gods wanted. We don’t even know if Eonar would obey their orders. The Old Gods shown that the creatures of the void can have plans of their own, different from those of their creators. Order and Life aren’t really on such bad terms, Titans don’t remove Nature’s creations like they do with demons or Void minions, perhaps due to Eonar intervention, but we’re not sure. Titans believe that life on the planets make Titan soul stronger, which may be another manipulation to create more Titans like Eonar. Even one of their pillars involves Elune, a member of the Patheon of Life, Elune may have proposed an alliance through Eonar. These two have much in common such as similar names, Eonar soul was hidden from Legion on Elunaria. Speculate even further, perhaps through this collaboration, druids can use astral/titan magic, and mages have learned polymorph spells from Life.

Before we move on to the rest of the players, let’s talk about Elune. I think the moon goddess is the most important pawn in this theory. The one who combines all the cosmic powers within herself. She’s the most active member of TeamLife. About the previous forces in short, let me briefly remind you how in Legion and BFA Elune was shown to wield three of the six forces.

Order: They named one of the Pillars of Creation after her, she can literally control the moon (celestial object) and create constellations of stars. Overall, a very arcane aesthetic.

Light: We see her tear heal Prime Na’ru, her priestesses use a power based more on light than life.

Death: She pulls Ysera’s soul out of her body and sends it to SL, where it is clearly stated that it shouldn’t be. Wisps who despite being the souls of mortals, remain in the material world to guard sacred places for the Nature Gods. Only NE who lose faith in Elune can be resurrected as undead.

Now let’s talk about Light. Our first clue is the words of Velen, probably the most powerful Light user in the universe, considers Elune powers similar to Na’ru. Which automatically eliminates Elune powers originated only from the side of Life. Malfurion himself never considered Elune to be his goddess, so he doesn’t see Tyrande powers coming from nature. Khadgar found a tome in Karazhan about Elune creating Na’ru at the beginning of the cosmos, Xe’ra reaction to her tear confirms this theory, giving us her direct connection to Light. Elune as the mother of Na’ru, beings who represent Holy Light in reality tells us about the high position and merit of moon goddess for this particular power. Na’ru are rather unwilling to turn against their creator. Life may not control Light yet, but isn’t afraid being attacked by them. Just allowing Elune to create Na’ru shows the Light great trust in Elune.

About Shadow, we unfortunately have less evidences. Shadow and Fel are what life hates the most, but our first example was Elune cleansing Ysera out of Nightmare, she didn’t brutally tear Nightmare out of her body, but rather removed it like a doctor with corruption she already dealt with before. Control over shadow energy is also seen in Na’ru creation. Creator of beings with a Void side knows how to use it. Some believe that the Night Warrior powers come from The Void, but we have too little evidence. Xal’atath calls Elune an upstart goddess, I think she called her that because Elune is a beginner in the craft of Shadow and she’s fairly new god in that area, compared to the rest of the Void gods. In the last patch we got a trinket that talked about An’shull a space wanderer who opens portals to the Void, which could be, a hint that Elune’s brother was supposed to infiltrate this particular force. We will note the significance of the moon, it literally combines light and dark. Symbolism of balance. The Monkin Druid form created by Elune literally has a balance specialization.

There are only 2 Fel moments that show us tiny hints connection to Life. Life Agent Elune removes satyr curse turning him back into elf, revealing Elune some control over Disorder. In her temple Gul’dan start the legion invasion. I know it’s a weak point, but it’s interesting that out of all Azeroth, he started invasion from there. In Legion, we also have a boss called the Desolate Host whose core is somewhat looks like Elune tear, which despite obvious Fel contamination, hasn’t changed color like in the case of Void Corruption, which might indicate that this tear was created specifically to work with Fel.
Of course, that doesn’t mean she has full control over those powers. I’m aware that may only show her extremely powerful healing abilities.

Now I would like to mention less obvious allies.

Dragons. While we have 5 dragonflights created by Order, lore tells us that the Great Tree of G’hanir in Emerald Dream is where dragons should go after they die, yet we still have evidence of their connection to nature while they’re alive. Two of the dragon aspects are destined to protect life, and one was even chosen to be a queen of the entire dragon race. The other one control the Emerald Dream. That was easy. But, we can find connections to Life in the other flights. Elune as a being close to magic itself was present when new aspect of magic was chosen. The election of Kalecgos as a leader of the flight took place during Embrace, showing blue dragons direct connection to Elune, and another clue to her link to Arcane. The choice of this moment shows that the moon holds some big value for magic on Azeroth. Perhaps it was Elune who chose Kalcegos over his opponent. The other two flights have lesser ties to Life, but they still exist. Life has the ability to show minor visions of the future which may be related to Bronze dragons, but it doesn’t have as strong prophetic ability as Order, Light or Void. Black dragons also favor Nature due to their connection to the Earth element. Why? Let’s move on to the next point.

Another great ally of Life are Elementals. Though not under his control, they work closely with Nature. Druids using air spells, Fandrall Druids of the flame, Elune and Neptulon together control the tides of Azeroth. The elements work with Nature more than with any other powers. Taurens consider Elune to be the most connected to Water and Air, whitch Moonwells Reflect. Perhaps Elune is worshipped by Kul’tirans Tidemother, which may suggest the item , tablet of balancing Tides" and ,the Lost sailor memorial" in Drustvar. Many times we see how the Cenarion Circle and the Earthen Ring shared common goals. The balance of Life and fight against the corruption of other forces.

Spirit. Known as the fifth element, also called Spirit of Life maintains harmony among the others elements. On Draenor, we see how too much Spirit causes Sporemounds to form and slowly turning elementals into mortal beings. The raw beings of the elements become part of the Cycle of Life and Death over time. We can assume in their natural evolution, each Elemental should become a mortal being over time. One of the smaller examples this partnership is Shaman Sur’jan who used Life Energy in Nazmir to regain his elemental powers.

Mortals. Every race on Azeroth is part of the cycle of life and death. As we can see learn from story of SL, no matter what other power or God you believe in, 99% of you will end up in Shadowlands. Therefore, whether we like it or not, we have to try to make the whole cycle work properly otherwise it will end very unpleasantly for us. (Look at the Jailer)

Classes. Druids and Shamans are obvious examples, but so are Monks, who draw their energy from the Spirit of Life (Chi). Hunters may not use magic, but they live in harmony and respect nature. Even Envokers, who use the power of the red, green, and black dragons, can find their source of power in Nature.

Nature itself is a more powerful and darker force than some realize. Cenarius axe is currently the only weapon capable of harming Sargeras. Titans placed Life between Order and Light on their cosmology map, while Brokers placed it between Death and Disorder, even Kepper of Zereth mortis found Life to be as dangerous as these two chaotic forces. Odin consider Life as something too dangerous to be left unchecked.

As you can see Life found its way into 5 of 6 forces and its influence is still growing. Its roots are slowly spreading to other sides of the conflict and so far the rest of the big players have not noticed it. Their method is the complete opposite of Dreadlords. Instead of dividing the cosmos, they’re trying to unite it.
I believe the ultimate plan of Life is divided into two parts.
The first is the infiltration of each Pantheon from within. For now, we only have two examples : Eonar and Winter Queen, perhaps after meeting new Pantheons, number will increase,
Second is to create a hybrid of all six cosmic forces by learning and absorbing their powers. And this hybrid shall be Elune.

What I like about Life is that even they are extremely cunning and certainly have a lot behind their ears they’re probably the best side of this conflict, (but not perfect) Each force is not entirely good but if we had to choose which power should rule the universe it would probably be life. They have no ambition to brutal conquest, but rather prefer to stay on their own. You are on our side? Great! You’re against us, we don’t care, but stay away from us and our plans.

What do you think? did I convince you of my crazy theory? ? Or do you have your own thoughts and would like to add something? I’m curious about your opinion


In short, while I’m not one for plagiarism, I think it would help the story a lot if Blizzard went with your idea if they stick to the “cosmic free-for-all” story. I just hope they don’t villain bat Elune.

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Thank for your opinion! I’m not against idea of ​​some Cosmic powers wanting dominate the rest, but if each side wants do this exactly the same way this would be boring. Gaining control while not taking away free will is a really interesting and unique strategy.

I don’t want Elune to become completely evil either. However, I don’t want her just cry or be another typical pefect goddess. Elune favors one race over another, gave her followers power to dominate the planet, accepts blood sacrifices, in Embrace story she ignores dangers she poses to the cosmos only to get her child back, it’s not behaviour of a kind god but this makes her so interesting. I really expected from Elune more than just a single tear after she learn how Jailer outsmarted them all and sending NE souls to hell. Elune should be crucial part in defeating Jailer, just like Titans with Fel or Light against the Void in the future.

Let’s hope Blizzard has seen the negative feedback and starst write her with respect she deserve.


Only kind of blessing we didn’t get to see is Elune in Person. Elune showing herself would probably ruin the mystery of Mythology within WoW.


There’s some good ideas there. P.S To clarify, when I referred to plagiarism, I wasn’t calling your idea plagiarism; that was referring to if Blizzard used your idea and called it their own.

I think that it’s too vague of a theory, for Life to have this seemingly evil intent behind each cosmic force.

If you pin this all on Elune, and said Elune is trying to raise to the level of a First One, or replace them or something along those lines, I would have considered it to be more valid.

Life is just the force that exists within each Cosmic “bubble” that it’s going to appear to be in control, but in reality, it’s just part of the greater universe.

(Queue Arthas: “I intend to live forever…”)

A demon who is born of pure Fel is still “alive.” - It’s affiliation is to spreading chaos and to the Fel, but it still exists in a “living form.”

I also think there’s some flaws in the idea of “one will consume all others” as that usually falls short when discussing Disorder and Order.

  • Disorder doesn’t want to consume all others, otherwise there wouldn’t (couldn’t) be disorder.
    • While Sargeras wanted to kill everything, that doesn’t necessarily mean that “Disorder” wanted or would have allowed for that to happen-- if there are Disorder Cosmic beings.
    • Sargeras was just a tool keeping the scales uneven, but he didn’t succeed completely.
  • Order doesn’t want to consume all others, otherwise there wouldn’t (couldn’t) be order.
    • Order’s dilemma is the fact that they want to keep everything in check, but do so by force and manipulation.
    • Blizzard is trying to show this is a bit shady, but in reality it’s the best of the six.

Light, Void, Life, and Death are a bit more on the “consume all others” spectrum but don’t necessarily need each other to “feed one another” or balance each other out.

  • Life doesn’t need death, as the universe could just keep expanding.
  • Death doesn’t need life, as an empty universe is still technically death.
  • Light is more of a fanatic, wants to convert all.
  • Void is more consumption, wants to consume all.

When I think of the Cosmic Universe, I usually like to think of it as how the First Ones ordered things, and in what order that truly was.

You could say:

  • First came Void, an expanse of nothing.
  • Second came Light, clashing with the darkness.
  • Third sprung forth Life.
  • Fourth came decay and death.
  • Fifth resulted in Choas.
  • Sixth came the need for Order.

Each Cosmic Power lead into the other and brought about this eternal conflict.

I don’t think that Life is manipulating everything in their favor, I would actually think that Disorder is the most dangerous cosmic force, as that force can be on any side.

Disorder’s true goal, I would assume, is for no one to win, but for someone to always be “winning.”


I know Shadowlands sucked, but I think more emphasis needs to be placed on Beings within the cosmic forces themselves, and the reasoning behind this is the Prototype Pantheon fight in the Sepulcher of the First Ones.

If the Pantheons die, they will eventually be replaced but the Pantheons are shown to have a bit of free will.

My questions would be:

  • What is Elune and what are Sire Denathrius and Elune striving to be?

I’ll be honest with you, I won’t be mad if Blizz used my ideas. I’ve seen fan theories hundred times better than what we got in the game. Writers shouldn’t go with the line of thinking “Somebody made a theory too close to our plans, we need to change the story completely!!!”

If they copied my original character or outfit I would consider it as plagiarism but not the idea itself. My theory is based on a lot of evidence we have in the game so maybe I’m just guessing where Blizzard is going.

Each side has its own plans to take control. Isn’t it suspicious that Nature seems to be a bit passive in this conflict? Or we just didn’t understand her true plans earlier. Dreadlords called ,Adherents of Life" the most insidious opponents. What Life done to Nathrezim, one of the worst guys in universe, so they start called them Insidious? Something much bigger going on behind the scenes with Life. After this quote I started looking for more information and that’s how I came up with this theory.

Disorder is obviously the greatest threat, when it comes to brute force, but they are not the smartest players. Without a strong leader, they start fight against each other. It’s in their nature to fight everyone, even with other demons. And I don’t think most cosmic forces would want to work with Fel. They are too chaotic for cooperation.

We’re almost 100% sure of Elune as the god of life. (slightly disappointed, however, going the right way, she can still be extremely interesting character)

About her plans, as I wrote it in theory, she wants to become a hybrid of all six powers. but details such as : whether she wants it, rest of her siblings forced her to do it, or she does it against their will, are still a mystery.

I’m pretty sure Denathrius will join to most of his children in fel, when Nathrezims have the biggest influence.

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Well, it’s not so much each force plans to take control, as it’s just somewhat in their nature. If you ever see a sidewalk destroyed by a tree root, it wasn’t done with malicious intent, but simply nature running it’s course.

The villains of our story is rarely the force itself, and in many cases we usually learned that in the right hands, any force can be friend. (or foe)

Take Alleria Windrunner for example and the Void. While her story is yet to really be told, and depending on how you view the “Hour of her third death…” quote, she (along with a lot of Shadow Priests) show that the void can be used for “good.”

Paladins and the Light, Demon Hunters and Fel, etc… all show this.

I think this was just for dramatic effect mostly. To show that Dreadlords were more associated with Death (at the time) then that of Fel. This was a letter in the beginning of their ploy, seemingly before Sargeras, but the time frame is still in question.

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Second part of theory : Conquest of Azeroth by Nature.

In first part, I shared my thoughts on, how Life gained more and more influence in the cosmos. In second part, I describe how she gained the upper hand on Azeroth. You’ll probably say - But wait, Azeroth isn’t conquered by Life. - And here things started gets interesting.

I have a question. What does a planet take over, by a particular cosmic force look like? We have many examples of this in lore: Void Azeroth during the Black Empire, Nathreza and Argus taken over by Fel, worlds crystallized by the light of Na’ru. The whole planet takes on the characteristics of its conqueror.

If zone has tentacles and black Obelisks in it, of course we call it Void territory, so why not define Un’goro jungle or Elwynn forest as a life territory? Why we didn’t notice it? Simple answer. Because we are the beings of Nature. At this point Azeroth is mostly inhabited by life. For us, forests and meadows are completely normal.

In the real world, you’re definitely right, but in the warcraft universe, even ordinary trees are parts of a larger war. If we belong to the side of the Light and we started see rising forests on our crystal world of course we would see this as a dangerous plague, just like we see Fel corruption.

Azeroth itself, apart from a few places, have mostly nature-centered zones that are often inhabited by Wild Gods. We have more Wild gods on Azeroth than Titan Keepers, Old Gods, and Na’ru combined. They are worshiped by most races and have many names, in many cultures.

We have the Celestials in Pandaria, considered as the guardians of this land, they help taught Pandarian monks, a class very close to Nature due to the fifth element. (I mentioned this in the first part of the theory)

Loa are worshiped by all trolls. We have the most of them among the gods, and they have the most different levels of power. Many are slightly stronger than normal animals while others are as powerful as the Ancients.

Ancient Guardians are perhaps the best-known examples of wild gods. Probably the strongest representatives of the species, such as Malorne, Goldrin and Ursoc.

We have also misfits like Cenarius and Aessina, Aviana, Bwonsamdi and many unnamed small wild gods.

Cenarius is the earliest example of a wild god we’ve ever encountered. The son of Malorne and Elune who first started the study of Druidism on the planet. Official leader of the wild gods and Cenarion Circle.

Aessina is an interesting case. If we consider that she’s a Wisp (an elf spirit extremely close to Nature) perhaps she was one of the first mortals to worship Elune and thus became the first or extremely powerful Wisp.

Aviana is a harpy god spiritually linked to the G’hanir tree. In the book, she refers to dragon Krasus as “one of her own”, which may imply a common bloodline, her connection to the proto-dragons, or simply that the dragon’s soul will be in her care after death.

In Zandalar we have the God of Death Bwomsambi. This is a really interesting case, so I’ll talk a bit more about him. The Other Side his domain, is located in Ardenweald which show us his close partnership with Life. Our favorite Loa mention many times about maintaining a balance between life and death. There are many clues suggesting that Bwon was once a mortal and like Aessina, won the favor of a greater deity to be turned into a smaller god. In this case, Mueh’zala. Zanza the Restless is also called Loa, which may indicate that mortals can become gods, but it takes a long time to do so. I believe that Bwonsamdi’s powers also come from Nature side. Loa of death can summon a red moon. This astral phenomenon is often associated with Hakkar as well as blood trolls. I believe the blood moon represents blood magic, tortured life magic that combines death, life and decay. Interestingly, blood magic is also used by death knights, so in its own VERY twisted way, DK also owes some of their powers thanks to Life. The red moon appears in the battle for Dazar’Alor when Bwon summons it, immediately undead trolls come out of the ground. That inplictes BM has power to weaken veil between the world of the living and SL, wherever we see this moon we can see undead. In Northrend, we have a Bloodmoon Island was once inhabited by the archmage Arugal. In interesting coincidence, this mage was experimenting with life magic and Emerald dream, which caused summoned first worgen to Gilneas

Wild gods are worshiped even on the Dragon Isles by Centaurs, Furbolgs, and Tuskarr. No matter where we go, these great spirits of Nature appear almost everywhere

During the War of the Ancients, it was the Wild Gods forces that leaded the Azeroth’s defense against Legion. Not Keepers or Na’ru, but the greatest, main and most numerous force on the planet.

Not only in Wild Gods we can see the influence of life on Azeroth. World trees are powerful manifestations nature power. All of them came from G’hanir tree in the Emerald Dream, which as I mentioned all winged creatures should go after death. Their presence heal Azeorth itself, strengthen powers of all druids and elementals. Abilities of this trees were dangerous enough for Old Gods or Legion to attempt to corrupted them many times (their existence hid the planet from Sargeras grasps and weakened the effect of the Saronite, they also probably pump Life essence into World Soul) which sadly mostly succeeded.

From from all world trees only Nordrasill left, but soon from Tyrande new seed Amidrasill will rise, which may make Nature even stronger. Who knows what bonus fancy powers it gain thanks to Ardenweald death magic.

Now I will mention races of Azeroth and their connection to Nature. Seeing Wild gods worshiped in every corner of Azeroth and cultures based on Druidism and Shamanism I wants to explore their relationship with this power in more detail.

Humans, dwarves and gnomes are most interesting case. Originally created as beings of Order, they became alive through Yogg magic. This born a hundreds of questions. Why would the Old god turn titan constructs into mortals and not in their image? After all, robots are as vulnerable to the whispers of the void just like living beings. Where Void got the power to turn Order creature into a Life creature. Did they make a deal with Life? Together they tried to weaken influence of Titans on the planet? Perhaps life is open minded to all and does not block other beings from joining them unlike other powers with their restrictive rules? We still don’t know. This is topic for new theory. However, the reason behind this curse was to cause chaos among guardians of Yogg saron prison and help him escape. which unexpectedly created a great asset for nature.

Draenei have only a small proportion of shamans, thats it. When Velen met Tyrande at the temple of Elune, he spoke of how many indications tells that Elune was a Na’ru. Maybe Elune disguised herself in the power of Light so Velen would develop a friendly attitude towards her.

The night elves don’t need be discussed. They are ideal representatives of this power.

Tauren are very much associated with druidism and shamanism. Enough for Highmountain to be blessed by Cenarius. Some of their main deities are Mu’sha and An’she, probably members of the pantheon of Life.

Pandaren, as I mentioned earlier, they use power of spirit and worship the celestials. A solid ally for Life.

Worgen, while still humans, they’re extremely close to night elves and Emerald dream. They have exstra special connection tanks to Goldrinn.

Kul’tiras have their own druid Thronspeaker school. Their blood is mixed with Drust. Although we do not know the details of their history, they are somewhat related to the cycle of life and death.

Orc culture based on shamanism, hunting and unity with the earth.

Trolls on their lands have the largest concentration of loa and their followers on the world. They even have a small group of Lun’alai trolls who worship the moon as their main deity.

Forsaken are a side effect of domination and Maldraxxus magic. As these dimensions come from SL and Shadowlands is inseparable from Emerald Dream they are unwillingly connected to the whole cycle.

Blood elves possessed the magical tree Thas’alah, which has strengthened the runestones protecting Silvermoon for thousands of years. Society that highly values ​​​​hunting tradition.

Nightborne, even the most proarcane race on Azeroth, is a close to Nature thanks to the Arcan’dor tree that freed them from Nightwell hunger. To maintain the balance between Arcane and Life magic, the pure essence of life from the Emerald Dream is essential. If ED was destroyed and Arcan’dor loses balance of powers, they will fall back into the magic addiction.

Only Mecha gnomes, Goblins, Lightforged and Void elves are not closely related to this power, but they still mostly ended up in SL.

You still think it’s not enough to prof we are on the side of nature?
In Stormrage book, we see Emerald dream under nightmare control put almost all inhabitants of Azeroth to sleep showing them terrifing visions. Sylvanas also was the victim of a nightmare, even if she shouldn’t have been connected to the ED as a undead, Nightmare can even control the minds of demons like Nightmare imp, which I’ll come back in a moment. This shows the extraordinary importance of this dimension. It doesn’t matter if you believe in Light or you’re Void cultist. An endangered dream means a threat to us.

Emerald dream itself is extremely fascinating place. Primordial Azeroth, having a connection with a world soul, place of renewal of wild gods, and the origin of World trees, source of the druids power, the hideout of the Green Aspect. This place has an big effect on the evolution way of the planet. Has access to any place on Azeroth (thanks to him, Malfurion sneak to Azshara palace undetected, even it was a place filled with the most powerful mages and demons). Has a bond to the Great Dark Beyond, Gardens of life, Ardenwelad, titans and even the Twisting Nether and Void thanks to Rift of Aln. This dimension has a visible connection to almost all cosmic forces. No wonder that Old gods are so eager to take over this place, even Xala’tah admires Nightmare and envies them for creating it. Even if she mentioned many times about the works of the old gods, she’s jealous only about Nightmare.

Nature vs Void is quite a repeated trope. Fight for Emerald dream, corruption of dragon aspects, war of the shifting sands, night warrior in Ardenwelad vs unknown Old god. These two forces had more beef with each other than with their opposites. Even on the Dragon Isles we don’t see any stories about light or death, only hints of the Void and growing importance of Nature

Unfortunately they already shown us 2 out of 6 pantheons. I don’t think they’ll stop after those two, but it would be nice if Blizzard slowed it down a bit and make their apperance more subtle.

Haven’t you heard?

– Everything was retconned.

It was all the Jailor. :smiley:

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Well duh, the masterminds are clearly the first ones because they literally built the universe to end up in conflict. The only question is why.

Hopefully the Light wins, they are the good guys.

Not according to the new lore. The light is just like every other cosmic force and it has its own agenda for the universe at large

I’m starting to suspect the mastermind behind the cosmic war is Annoy-0-tron.


Please don’t remind me of that. :confounded: Dude would still be in the Maw if Helya, Denathrius, and Mueh’zala didn’t helped him. Each of them alone is more interesting than Jailer, Three of them trying to take over SL themselves are a thousand times better story than the all-knowing Zoval.

I don’t consider First Ones to be a players, rather a creators of the board on which cosmic forces play rn or just retired GM. They had their time of rule, but for some reason they left the throne.

definitely a better choice than Void or Fel however I still rooting more for Life :grinning:

Blizzard recently noticed their mistakes and try to writing better story in DF. Especially when it comes to foreshadowing. It would be really awful if they threw this idea to the trash. It was this part of the book that inspired me to create this all theory. Revealing Dreadlords as a manipulators of the universe is probably the most important piece of knowledge we got in this expansion. This idea opens up many ways for future storytelling, and it’s what I belive future of Warcraft will be based on. If we ignore this part, we can forget every other part. As I wrote, we have too much evidence that Life is a very dangerous player.


We see this in the Star Augur fight in Legion.


Quotes of Encounter:
Such insolence… very well, I shall show you!
See for yourself the cruel, frozen void that lies beyond the margin of Azeroth’s skies!
The stars have judged you, and found you wanting.


Quotes of Encounter:
The Burning Legion. Slayers of whole worlds.
Could we hope to resist? Can you?!


Quotes of Encounter:
Is that not enough? Must I show you the true horror of our reality?
Very well… witness what I have seen and TREMBLE!
Avatars of non-existence… knowing nothing but hunger.
These are the beings who will devour the future you so futilely fight to protect!

We get to see 3 worlds that were consumed by a singular cosmic force, we see Undeath in the Frozen world, to symbolize that of a Lich King type of take over.

We see a shattered Legion World and what that would do to a planet, even that of Argus.

And finally we see a Void Consumed world, which was implied to not have a World Soul, just an unfortunate world that lost to the Old Gods.

Now, jumping to life, we begin to see this villainized in AU Dreanor.


If you go look at the Evergrowth, we see that even Life can be an enemy if left unchecked.

While some among you would prefer to argue these points further, such debate can no longer be tolerated.

I remind you that I speak with the authority of the titans, and any further dissent may cause me to question whether you have succumbed to outside influences.

Remember: Life is chaos. It must be controlled.

Your leader,

Prime Designate Odyn

This is mainly due to us being agents of Order, with a track record of Void, Death, and Disorder being the “big bads” in our universe… we just haven’t gotten to the Light and Life villain phase yet, which is portrayed in the Odyn quote.

Lich King, Sargeras, and Void Lords have been major players in the attempted conquest of Azeroth, if the Evergrowth spread into Azeroth, you bet us murderhobos would be first in line to go chop down some trees for 34g 12s.


I think that this is a harder subject to get into, because it goes into the nitpicky aspect of the lore, but I think this has to do more with the element of “Spirit.”

“A trained shaman has the ability to communicate with the four elements of earth, fire, air, and water. This is known. What is not as widely known, however, is the presence of a fifth element. This element is not as clearly described as the other four, but it has to do with the shared… commonality between all living creatures.”

There are 6 elements on the cosmic chart:

  1. Fire
  2. Earth
  3. Air
  4. Water
  5. Decay
  6. Spirit

Spirit is said to be that spark of life that lives in all creatures.

Azeroth’s unusually vast world-soul consumed much of planet’s Spirit. On worlds more plentiful in spirit like Draenor, the elementals are calmer and work in harmony. In fact, Draenor had so much Spirit that it caused accelerated plant growth, giving rise to the Sporemounds.

Spirit has also shown the ability to turn stone into flesh over time.

I think this is also why the Void often conflicts with Life, it’s the easiest cosmic force for it to influence and infiltrate. (Curse of Flesh)

(Side Note: An interesting thing in Dragonflight is that there is no Primal Incarnate of Spirit. If you count Galakrond as Decay, it would be interesting to see what an Incarnate of Spirit would be like)


If Life is so chaotic and dangerous why Keepers didn’t get rid of it like they did with Void and Fel? The Titans have Eonar in their ranks and are close to Elune. Even if Odin doesn’t like Nature, his bosses have some ties to Life whereby he can’t remove them. At the peak of titans power, when other forces were eradicating from Azeroth, only Life seemed to be tolerated.

Are we really agents of Order? We owe the Titans knocking down Old Gods, but their hierarchy of power is total submission to their superiors. Exception from the rule is unacceptable and caused suspicions of treason. Odyn tried several times to crush rebels from Avaloren. In my opinion, we are more agents of Nature, we belong to the cycle of life and death, most races worship nature spirits. Nature and Wild gods do not forced obedience on the lesser beings of life and like us, they value free will above all else. It’s a better reality under their protection than what the rest of powers has to offer.
Life presents itself to us as a good force, it doesn’t want to enslave us, and many times we have common goals.

yep, as mentioned above, the Elements are connected to Life more than with any other force. It is their natural cycle of existence to become mortal beings over time. The fifth element itself is the subject of a theory of its own. Its lack causes world sized chaos and its excess causes accelerated evolution of plants.

dreadlords consider Life to be their most dangerous enemy, their infiltration should not be so easy even for Void. Even Emerald dream corruption is the fault of druids who unknowingly opened them entrance to the dream

I think this is a case of, we haven’t gotten to that level of extreme conquest from the Light and Life, yet.

I think AU Yrel, or even Turalyon has the potential to be those level threats in the future and then of course Elune and the Evergrowth can always be villainized by Blizzard if they wish.

But I think this is a good point:

Life was tolerated because it was a necessity to sustain Azeroth, as mentioned before, Azeroth drained much of the Planet’s Life Force (Spirit). Without that “life” or “spirit” worlds wouldn’t be able to florish.

However, that is all tolerated by the Titans will.

They tolerate mortals because even as Odyn put it, with the right guidance, mortals can be used as tools to serve the titans ways.

No different than tolerating that obnoxious Fel using Warlock in your raid group…

Quite literally yes, as seen from our diverse quest logs.

Too many plants? Go kill plants.
Too little plants? Go plant plants.
Too many Scarlet Crusaders? Go on a Scarlet Crusade.

We are tools used to keep the balance in all things, whether we are killing Light following Crusaders, Void twisting Prophets, to Overgrown unchecked vegetation, there’s really no force that we haven’t killed or aided in some way.

Well that Preface was written in the early days of the Dreadlord creation, at that point in time, Dreadlords were truly Undead. It was through years of draining cosmic energy that they were able to infiltrate the other forces.

“Consuming fel energy is not a pleasant process, but a necessary one.”

The reason why they were so “dangerous” was because Life was the opposite of death. Given the most likely time frame, body stature aside, Dreadlords were still in their infant stages. The opposite cosmic force would most likely be one of their more difficult foes from the get-go.


As for Eonar’s place in the Pantheon, along with the Winter Queen, and Elune. I think that they all view themselves as children of the First Ones-- sisters.

However, we haven’t gotten much information on the other Titans other than who they empowered of the Aspects and a few other deeds.

Personally, I think that each Titan within Order has an affiliation to each cosmic power to ensure Order is maintained.

  • Aman’Thul - 7th Cosmic Force - Reality (Everything)
  • Eonar- Life
  • Norgannon - Order
  • Golganneth - Disorder
  • Khaz’goroth - Void
  • Aggramar - Light
  • Sargeras - Death
  • Sargeras - formerly Light - replaced by Aggramar
  • Argus - formerly Death - replaced by Sargeras (going forward)

But that’s another topic.

Edit Two:

You can read about Grond, an element that was actually created by Aggramar to “maintain balance” on Dreanor when it was being overan by the Evergrowth.


I stil don’t think we are true agents of Order. Probably Odin was better example. As you mentioned, we have always ensure balance. We are more like Balance Agents. (Elune agents? She was very fixated about balance, she’s never take full control over planet even when her followers rules the world) When one power on the planet gains too much power, we stop it before this power becomes too powerful to impose its will on us.

Dreadlords didn’t call Life the most dangerous, difficult to consume Life energy ( remember Life and Death are closely conected) or the most powerful, only insidious. Life knows dreadlords tricks and has its own emissaries skilled enough to match the agents of death. Look at Eonar, if she really is a hidden spy she did wonderful job, became a wife the head of the panheon, gained the trust of other titans, thanks to her life on the planets was treated better by Order. Soon we probably see more of them.

Maybe you’re right, but just Eonar presence literally screams #TeamLife. No other Titan has based all its power and appearance on another cosmic force. Look at Khaz’goroth he doesn’t walk around with a void cloak and many eyes on him.

Even the Eternal ones don’t have anything like that. Kyrestia may look like an angel of light, but she has zero connection to the real Light. Only the Winter Queen has an obvious connection to another power,