Yeah well that’s what I mean. There are people who used to pug 2s applying right now and not understanding the changes when maybe they were getting carried before. That’s not gonna happen as it is this first week at least. Lol
It was just one dungeon I failed out of quite a few. It was 2 people that weren’t doing anything that’s why.
I think the ilvl does make it a little tougher, I had a pretty low ilvl tank in one of them and they were slightly squishy actually.
Ilvl will make a big difference later on I think 
but also it’s a mix of things atm!
I realized I wrote that knowing what I meant but not explaining it well. Oops
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This reminds me of a few years back when elitists were whining that raiding would feel more epic if it was less accessible (so get rid of LFR!), like back in the old days when it was gated by belonging to the right clique in the right kind of guild.
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Except no elitists were saying m+ was going to need to need to “feel more epic” or be “less accessible”.
There is no gating. There is no right clique. No right kind of guild that would effect this issue.
Well i was thinking the same that its overtuned. But look at this, Season 3 you could go up to 485+ ilvl if you’re doing mythic and high keys. That is now heroic dungeon gear equivalent, maybe 5-6 ilvl higher.
M 0 give 495 gear which is higher then then previous mythic raid tier. So blizzard intentionally did this so we need more time to get gear . So i don’t know if you are getting impression from streamers who probably already run high keys that dungeons are overtuned for the rest of us, but in reality its all about players.
I had 2 Nokhund Offensive where we couldn’t pass second boss at all. 37 wipes. Same night on my mage i did same dungeon without any issues, but different group
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Its tough, but I think there are a lot of factors besides just tuning.
Every expansion Blizz wants to up the ante and make dungeons harder. Last season was mostly older dungeons and this season is all the newest, which were designed to be harder.
You also have to keep in mind that many players need time to learn the mechanics. They may not have been around for the start of the expansion, or maybe just got into keys recently. Its also possible they were around but have forgotten the mechanics.
Give it a couple weeks and it will al feel normal.
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Well this is with the brilliant new change , blizz want people to go from m0 and jump straight in 10-12 keys hahaha with no gap in between … might work for like 3k io players since they will be skipping the lower keys anyway, but i mean blizz is smart i tell you
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Heroic gives plenty of gear to do m0 which will easily get you started in keys
There is a gap, M0s are the gap between Heroic and M+. You’re supposed to dip your toes into the harder difficulties with the 0s to give you time to learn the difficulty without the pressure of affixes or timers.
People are blowing this way out of proportion when it hasnt even been a week. Once we’re accustomed to it it’ll be fine. Change is just different.
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Heroics has no m0 mechanics, and has basically no difficulty compared to 12 keys… thats why lower keys where good and thats why these guys are getting owned
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Theyre supposed to do m0 as a stopgap, not just immediately do keys
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Did you not read my post ? M0 are old 12 keys, so they are going from heroics to 12 keys
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They also have no timers and heroic/world content gives more than enough gear.
M0 is easy if you do mechanics, but they need to learn mechanics
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You know i woulda neve though about doing mechanics lol…
I mean, it is the crux of the issue, i went in with last seasons gear with our group at about 460 ilvl even and smashed m0, but we knew the mechanics
Well if you can run an m0 with your current gear you let me know
Which M+ mechanics are Heroics missing? You only get tyrannical/fort at +2 so its not like they have to worry about affixes
We did… i just said we did it at 460
All mythic only mechanics
I believe you. I haven’t tried a 2 yet, probably take my disc into keys tonight or tomorrow, but 0s aren’t anywhere near as bad as people have been saying they are so I imagine that while 2s aren’t just going to be a faceroll for me that I’ll manage.
I’m assuming it will be about as hard as the numerous 13s I had under my belt last season, maybe easier, maybe a bit harder.