Going from 4set with 3 pieces being 489 and one piece being 483 to 4 set at 515ilvl its a 0% dps increase.
If my Hunter goes from a full set of 489 to 502 its a 2% Dps increase. Imagine if I left raid on trash and bumped it to 515 then its a 6% dps increase vs 0%.
This is just me breaking down my 2 classes as they currently sit. As at least when I look at my Sims its easy to see why people are ticked off about the sets this tier and rightfully they should. Maxing out a set to Mythic quality is on par with someoneâs LFR set it just stupid.
Sure, but youre only comparing 4 pieces of gear. Even if the tier set was unnerfed, it would still result in a net loss if all youre doing is comparing tier sets.
The point is, youre not done gearing out once youve acquired tier. You still have 10-11 spots to upgrade and collect stats on.
The tier set was going to be a bust straight across anyway. More uptime and a 10% increase to Eclipse bonuses more than outweighs a single spender per cycle.
Again, Balance Druid isnt the only one to have this happen to them. Guardian druid is another one in the same class that goes backwards when trading straight across.
But again, âbalanceâ isnt acheieved at 496 ilvl in season 4 because you replaced your tier set. Its balanced at the back end.
So everyone complaining because at 500 ilvl the new tier set is a DPS loss, well yeah, thatll happen. Wait until everyone is 522+
Gear progression should always be linear as stated by Ion himself. This wouldnât make any sense otherwise as 520 ilvl which is where you suggest the game is balanced would exclude nearly all LFR, Normal, and most Heroic players.
I love how a low ilvl low tier player is telling the druid community how âWe druids workâ
Iâm playing very casually right now and have raided at the highest levels this game has to offer. Please stop forcing your opinions on others. Your not experienced enough to be talking the talk your talking.
This has never been a problem in the 20 years I have played this game. Tier to Tier there is and always has been linear gear progression. The only exception is Dragonflight. You sound like your a paid blizzard employee and nearly everyone in this thread is tired of you replying to every single forum comment as if your some authority on our class. Please find something else to do with your time. We are trying to get our class and spec fixed and your being counter productive.
your biggest achievement with your account and our class is AOTC and Iâm the one whoâs wrong. You are definitely a paid employee or have some type of vendetta against the druid community. Also thank you for enough ammunition to warrant your forum silence.
Your arguments puts the Druid in a bubble out on an island. I mean you talk about what its going to be at 522, well what do you think these other classes are going to be doing at 522. If your set bonus at max is only 1% dps increase over last tiers, what do you think you will be looking at with every other class whoâs +8x higher at the half way pointâŚ
For sure, I have always and will always claim that our tier set is poo at best. Thatâs not my argument. People are trying to use logs already to show where Druids are sitting, when those logs have 15-20 ilvl differences.
Then people are claiming that there is no dps increase with the S4 set. Which is also false. Itâs just not an upgrade straight across with tier set is all. And again, this isnât a Balance Druid issue. Guardian Druids took a hit, Survival Hunters took a hit, and Warriors too I believe are stepping backwards until their overall ilvl increases. So itâs not a balance druid issue.
But it is, If you take my Druid in S3 BIS and throw on S4 tier 502 its a -3% Dps loss, you take my Hunter in its S3 BIS and throw on S4 tier at 502 is a +2% dps increase. So compared to another class your basically -5% worse.
Druids were in a bad spot all expansion now add on a tier that hurts them and the logs are backing it up.
This isnt new. Nor is it isolated to Balance Druid. Balance Druid is already 5% behind some classes. Every tier classes shuffle their ranking in the list. This is nothing new.
Again, S1 into S2 both Balance and Feral took a hit with straight across. I didnt play balance at that time so i cant soeak completely on that, but for Feral, i think needed a Heroic level upgrade before it wasnt a net loss. Much like Balance now. And it was even worse for Balance. They had to straight up nuke the set in order to get people to swap.
So to reiterate. Not a new concept. And not isolated to just Balance Druids. Before we didnt have a choice in tier. We just upgraded to it when we could or when it would make sense. This season and tier set is no different. People are just mad because their decision (which tier set they voted on) had negative reactions.
They were middle of the pack. Top in M+. I didnt follow all the specs and tier sets throughout the seasons and im not sure how theyre going to stack up compared to the others especially since i didnt follow what specs got what tier set per se (only a few on the few alts i plan to play).
And the logs are much to spread out to be of any use. Theres no real comparison between 20 ilvls in classes.
Logs will be more concrete and a much better source of difference in power once everyone plateaus. Give it 2 more weeks. Im not saying druids are going to be in a good place, but we have to drop the false idea that weâll be at a constant net loss going from S3 â S4.
Ive already laid that to rest by taking a random person making that claim and showing their DPS increase with the S4 tier set
I replaced 2 pieces of Mythic gear with Normal gear in S2 an S3 and were both part of my Feral and Boomkin load outs. So In all honesty I still have no clue what you are even trying to argue because in both specs cases they were big time upgrades.
An logs a month from now wont change anything if specs and tier sets donât get a hard look. If your set bonus is at max breaks even and another class it 8-10% bonus, ur screwed no matter what. Data shows this on the drop to max.
False. Breaking Feral 4pc in Season 1 going into season 2 was a major DPS loss. Replacing 4pc at normal raid level was also a DPS loss. Just like it is for Boomkin now.
For reference.
Sure thatâs not what iâm arguing though. Iâm saying thereâs such a wide spread between ilvlâs and tier sets right now. Some people are running 2 and 2. Others have fully upgraded, others are still sitting in S3. Thatâs not to mention the difference between ilvls alone.
Youâd argue you canât compare a Balance druid in Normal raid gear against a Balance druid in Heroic raid gear right? But yet youâre okay comparing logs between a 520 Spriest and a 507 Balance Druid.
Tell me, in what world, is that a fair comparison? It isnât. You need everyone to normalize before you get a fair reading between everyone and where they fall. An Arms warrior may do better than a Balance druid because the Warrior is 520 with better gear than a 510 Balance Druid. But once that Balance druid is at 520 with better itemization, the Balance Druid will be better for instance. So comparing logs right now is pointless.
Balance was already among the lowest DPS specs in Amirdrassil.
Now most classes are getting new tier sets with big boosts, while Balance is getting a tier set that only marginally edges out the previous tier when you gain 20 ilevels on the pieces in the process.
I donât understand what variables you think are going to come into play that will see balance not bottom of the barrel when things level out. We know where we were last tier, we know weâre getting a smaller boost from new tier set than most (if not all) other classes, we know the fights arenât particularly good for balance because they werenât before - what makes you believe the maturing gear curve is somehow going to shoot balance up from the bottom?
If they donât fix the tier set, weâre bottom feeders. Itâs that simple. We have 2-3 fights (out of 26) that play to our strengths, and weâre mediocre to bad in the rest. Now our tier set puts us further behind other classes at the same spot on the gear curve.
Yes, the comparison to someone 20ilevels ahead is irrelevant. I donât think thatâs the core of the argument here.
And one of the top in M+. If it wasnt clear (to which i apologize), most of my argument has been based on M+ (as per the links ive used).
It was earlier and they just kept going off of it which is why I need to constantly reiterate the fact because itâs not sinking in for them
And it happens. Things fluctuate. If people were so concerned with numbers and their rankings in the raid, theyâd have gone with S3 as their choice. As mentioned earlier in this thread, S3 beat out unnerfed S1.
So iâm not sure why weâre complaining about fixing a tier set, that we as players chose, and complaining about itâs DPS output when we chose the second best, when it was at its best?
Because the vote very clearly said that regardless of what tier set won the vote, there would be a tuning pass to make sure all tier sets were approximately equal in strength. Thatâs clearly not the case as Amirdrassil set with 15 less ilevels is about as good as the new set.
Players have every right to be upset that they were told they could pick any tier set and trust that it would be tuned appropriately, and it wasnât. They also have every right to be upset that the first few weeks of the new season when everyone is getting new gear, getting stronger, and having fun, theyâre left behind as tier pieces accumulate in their bags until theyâre actually worth equipping. This has always been an issue with tier sets and one that blizzard fixes one way or another. So why is this instance - one they already promised to proactively fix when they held the vote - the exception?
Thats not where its balanced at though. Its not balanced around 495 ilvl. Thats why we have to wat to see where things level out.
They never said they were going to make it the strongest set of the expansion. And i think thats what you guys are assuming and where youre getting.your wires crossed. They said theyd tune them to bring them in line with power of the other tier sets for the season.
Quite a few specs are in the same boat as Balance right now. Guardian, SV Hunter, Fury Warrior to name a few.
Then theres orher specs like Devestation Evokers who are jumping insane amounts with their tier set (granted S3 was poo for them).
Again, balanced around the power of other tier sets. Nor balanced to make it the strongest set for that spec for the expansion. Tuning != make better at all costs
That has yet to be seen if its tuned appropriately. Again, tuned appropriately doesnât mean its going to be buffed to be better than S3 set.
Uh no. This isnt a new thing. And its not an isolated incident. Other specs are doing the same things. And other specs have done it in the past too. Go up a few posts and check on the one about Feral Druids going drom S1 â S2.
They do not always fix it. Hardly to do they ever change anything as once you gear up, regardless of tier set bonus, you end up with a DPS increase. And theyve already adjusted the values of the tier set. You missing it doesnt mean they didnt. Thus its not the exception. And not all tier sets needed tuning.
Yâall got some pretty wild expectations of what should be. I dont mean this to be rude, but i wish i was that ignorant as to think things are always going to go the way i want them to instead of the logical way
So this is the answer to my earlier question - you think the set bonus somehow magically scales and when we hit 515+ itâs going to explode in value? Thatâs simply not how it works - and if it were it would be reflected in sims, which itâs not.
No one has suggested that. They said all tier set bonuses would be tuned to similar strength. In other words, no matter which tier bonus won the vote, the approximate strength of the class would be the same. This is - as I already explained - not the case and plainly evident due to how the new tier pieces need to exceed amirdrassil ilevel by 20+ before it becomes worth swapping. If the new tier bonus needs that much additional stats to match amirdrassil gear, then itâs clearly not comparably powered. But hey, donât take my word for it, go run a custom sim in identical gear, change only the set bonus, and see what results you get. Spoiler: S3 set bonus wins by a landslide.
The exact wording is:
which reads as:
No one is suggesting it shouldâve been made the strongest tier set. Blizzard explicitly stated the approximate power level would be the same regardless of what tier set was chosen. This is - repeating myself for the third time - not the case and plainly evident.
You are genuinely misinformed if you believe another few ilevels is going to magically rescue the dreadful state of this tier set. If you wonât listen to other people explaining that to you, please spend 30 minutes playing around with simcraft and discover that for yourself.
I never claimed this was the case. People are saying the tier set is a dps loss. Sure, at low ilvls it is. Tier sets were never made equal, thatâd be a balancing nightmare. But itâs still a DPS gain when you gear up.
In comparison to other tier sets that get picked.
See above
Have you not been following the thread?? Thatâs exactly what theyâre suggesting and complaining about. That itâs not a direct dps increase when swapping tier pieces at nearly identical ilvl.
And youâre misinterpreting what they said. Itâs amongst all tier sets chosen for season 4 for all classes/specs. Not within the tier sets of the chosen specs.
This has already been evident by them going and tuning some of the tier sets 1-2 weeks after the voting was done.
I never made that claim either.
I already have. Thereâs another thread where I did this with the OP and showed them that theyâre still going to be getting a DPS increase. Is it as much as if they had chosen the season 3 tier set. No. Is it all doom and gloom and a DPS loss no matter what like everyone is trying to portray? No.
Blizz did stated before the voting that tier-sets form any season would be tuned to be equally powerful. (Iâm assuming this was so players could choose the one they enjoyed the mechanics of the most)
Blizzard has not tuned itâŚits not the players fault that Blizz forgot to do the job they promised us they would do ^^
Iâm sure others did as well. Even though my warrior is one of my lowest ilvl alts and I rarely play Fury, I went and voted for the Raging Blow spam build simply because itâs what I enjoy (I think thatâs the one that won too).
your biggest achievement with your account and our class is AOTC and Iâm the one whoâs wrong.