Because Voidform has a compelling fantasy and gameplay for me. Devouring Plague has neither.
I am with you! #savevoidform
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I don’t understand. You still get Void form though. It’s just a talented option instead of it being forced upon the spec.
If you can see that it doesn’t work in all situations then doesn’t that mean that by default its only used in “some” situations which then it fits perfectly as being a talent for those specific situations.
I think that is a perfect and legitimate compromise for those of us that see Void Form as something that is hindered in more areas then it excels in.
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There are a few reasons I do not want Voidform to be optional for Shadow.
I already mentioned this, Voidform has a very compelling fantasy and gameplay. If Voidform were to not be in base Shadow, then Shadow will need a completely different fantasy and compelling rotation to support it.
If Voidform is useful in 90% of content, is that reason enough to make it a talent? I argue no.
I raid at the very high end, and no matter how much choice you might claim there is in talents, it is an illusion when it comes to mythic raiding. The possibility that I would have to give up what I love for the sake of throughput, because I do not trust Blizzard to balance talents properly, is a prospect I fear.
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Bliz are dead set against transformative talent rows. While I personally like the idea of squeezing both wod and voidform onto the same spec, we’re trying to work within the realms of possibility.
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This is where I disagree.
Now maybe your right and blizzard does have this stance and I would love to see a confirmation of that if you can provide a link. But personally I think that stance (if they hold it or not) is just BS.
I outright think that goes against what the entire talent system is supposed to be. Its supposed to transform the way you play.
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That’s great and all for you. But I don’t think that is a good reason to restrict choice. You may feel forced to pick something you don’t want for high raiding, but the choice is still there.
The rest of us are forced to deal with Void form be it good, bad, broken, op etc. We are the ones without a choice, you still have a choice a bit as you elude to not much of one if you want to squeeze every number out that you can, the fact remains that a choice still does exist compared to how it is now.
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I think the point was baseline devouring plague that actually serves the purpose blizzard wants it to, would be a choice you have access to. Just because devouring plagues design right now sucks, doesn’t mean there’s no way to make an insanity spender work for out of voidform.
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Voidform is what you get when choosing Shadow. Just like being a pyromaniac is what you get when choosing Fire and controlling a demon army is what you get when choosing Demonology. I do not see how one can argue you are restricting choice unless that choice restricts playing in certain content at certain levels of difficulty.
That, I believe, is the valid argument for being against Voidform. However, that is not necessarily the fault of Voidform if it can be designed such that it is playable in all content. Yet we have not had the opportunity to have that experience thus far.
I agree that was the “point” with the reintroduction of it in its current form. My argument is why cant it be an either or spender form of a talent that 1 replaces the other?
Why is that not an option?
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How is that better? It just costs a talent point and takes it off the other’s bar. Unless seeing voidform in your spell book makes you want to retch, I don’t see how having both buttons baseline for their respective purposes is worse.
I don’t want to have it on my bars as I don’t want the spec to force me to use it when I will either never use it or never can use it. If its on my bar then somehow shape or form my ability to play Shadow will have to involve using it or I am crippled in other areas for not using it.
So yea, I have a big issue when things are forced on me when they just don’t work.
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Except the point of devouring plague would be to not only be available, but the optimal button to press, in those situations you’re describing.
If voidform exists, then in the optimal situations for it you’d be compelled to use it, except by your own admission you don’t find yourself in those situations. Meaning devouring plague would be optimal anyway.
But you know as well as I do that because its a “possibility” to use it in blizzards design, that damage from other areas outside Void Form will have to be balanced around it.
Meaning I cant do x,y,z because it would overshadow Void Form. So I am kept from growing / exploring other areas that could open up if I didn’t have access to Void Form.
Basically if we say Void form is 50% power and DP is 50% power, then if I dont use Void Form, I am down 50% power all the time.
I rather opt out of 50% power from Void Form and pick up another talent that gives me back that 50% power in a form more catering to what I do and how I play.
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Except then the person playing voidform doesn’t have access to that talent at all, and voidform wouldn’t want to optimally use devouring plague, so the voidform talent would need to be obscenely powerful to outpower it’s competitors on the row and the fact you’d no longer be using devouring plague.
It creates the same situation either way, just one way we’re both down a talent choice.
There could just as easily be a talent that increases the damage of spells in shadowform by x% and it’d functionally serve the same purpose, just without making a transformative row.
Yea basically.
The idea I was having was that baseline DP would be lets say 20% of the power aspect of your spec.
Taking other talents that compete with Void Form will fill in the 80% power. While Void Form itself that replaces Devouring Plague will be 100% power.
So 3 talent choices. 2 keep using DP but only add 80% power. 1 (Void Form) looses DP but gets 100% power.
Edit:
Or make VF grant 100% power and restrict the other talents to only add a total of 90% power or w/e. Make it so that overall output is lower form a numbers standpoint, but ability to place is more freeing. I’m fine with making Void Form be the most powerful option, but I just don’t want it to be THE forced option on everyone regardless of how they play the game.
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There could just as easily be a talent that increases the damage of spells in shadowform by x% and it’d functionally serve the same purpose (Making base spell damage when not using voidform higher), just without making a transformative row.
Balancing is Blizzard’s concern. We just decide what we want our gameplay to be and let them figure out how to balance it. For any gameplay, there exists a way to balance it. Therefore, desired gameplay informs balance, not the other way around.
Boring but it works. So I assume in this example, it would replace Void Form?
Otherwise it would be a useless talent to pick for those who use Void Form while in Void Form or it would be OP as it would add further power to Void Form for when your outside Void Form.
Voidform would actively play and be tuned in such a way to get low uptime from it, however those using devouring plague get 100% uptime. They’d also likely take another talent on the row more suited to their gameplay.
I’m just trying to avoid putting voidform on the talent tree whilst achieving the same goal as you.