San’layn/vampyr Elf ALLIED RACE Coagulated Megathread of Ideas{Re-VAMPed} (Part 1)

The only explanation I can really get for Sand Troll customization is that they aren’t Sand Trolls, but instead just Darkspear Trolls who have that skin tone. Sand Trolls are apparently related to Jungle Trolls, which is why that is the only logical explanation. Especially since any known Sand Troll tribes hate the Horde and we haven’t seen any new ones appear, so it just makes little sense that we suddenly see them in the Horde without any explanation. Moreso when something like Forest Trolls, who were a big part of the old Horde during the RTS days, should have more priority and significance over random enemy tribe that would somehow join a faction they despise with no in-game explanation.

But yes, it is really weird to see something like Bronzebeard and Dark Iron Dwarves as their own race, and something like Wildhammer Dwarves, who could easily be their own unique race and has had importance to the Alliance since the RTS days (they have a statue of a leader in front of Stormwind) gets to have Bronzebeard Dwarves LARPing as them. It really muddies the waters when it comes to playable races.

People have wanted a sub race system since Cataclysm, often citing Dark Iron Dwarves and Mag’har Orcs for such a system. Maybe coding it with the spaghetti Frankenstein coding that is WoW is too difficult to implement or maybe the allied race system was something they wanted to market for an expansion. Who knows?

It is a reason I’m vocal about the whole customization race thing. Compared to actual races, customization races just feel empty and really limiting as they are. Moreso when there are issues with Dark Ranger customizations. I made an entire post on the subject a long time ago talking about concerns of it and trying to find a reasonable solution to customization races having their own feel in gameplay and identity. It’s difficult to find that balance to say the least.

Frankly, I worry about some races becoming customization races because of how lackluster they seem to have been treated. For example, if we ever saw Kelfin as a customization race for Goblins, I worry that racials wouldn’t really be changed at all, so we’d end up with a race of aquatic beings who live in the deep ocean and have gills (hence the name GILgoblin) being able to drown in a matter of seconds in a shallow pond.

It’s a reason why for something like San’layn, I’m especially vocal. If they’re playable in some fashion, I want them to have a presence in the game in storylines. I want them to have a vampire theme and features. I don’t want them to be LARPing Blood Elves who just suddenly appear without any explanation and don’t have any presence in the game.

Player characters are the most important part of a MMORPG to me, and I want to see any race that becomes playable in any fashion given the love and care to make sure they are part of their respective faction. Not just a parent race cosplaying as one. Certainly, something like Wildhammer Dwarves deserve much better, as would Dark Rangers and any other customization race.

Sorry to be all grumble grumble on this subject lately, but I still feel it’s something important to say. Customization races can work, but they need better treatment than they are currently getting. And I worry for something like San’layn, that what makes them awesome and the potential they have will just get lost if slapped onto Blood Elves and any other race that would get San’layn features.

Just how I honestly feel is all. :wine_glass::bat:

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Here’s where I’d put my red eyes.

If I had some.

:large_blue_circle::large_blue_circle:

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free my boy. give him his red eyes. if night elf DK’s can use night warrior eyes still then dk’s should get red eyes.

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I just liked the idea that the Zandalari joining the horde, meant the tribes under them could join as well. Since they saw the Zandalari as leaders.

Perhaps most farraki hate the horde, but the ones that dont could join under the zandalari leadership vouching for such individuals.

I hope to one day get frost troll stuff. Iciicle tusks would be cool as a reimagined frost troll. If they give them an image revamp like they did for Zandalari in MoP

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One day my friend

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Since undercity was made to be the throne of the scourge, it would be better to rebuild Lorderan.

I feel so bad for all the Death Knights who were hoping to use the red eyes. It’s so dumb that they can’t use it, and yet Night Elf Death Knights can use their black Night Warrior eyes, and there’s literally a freaking NPC in the Death Knight starting zone who is a Death Knight with red eyes.

Also, just popping in to say that I still support San’layn customization, as they are far more than just pale skin and red eyes. Here’s to hoping Dark Rangers being a thing now didn’t throw our chances of getting actual vampire customization out the window.

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At first, I was O.K. with possible San’layn customization but after having played a BE with the new skin and eyes I am against it. The voice is still a BE’s and it seriously takes away from the look. The least they could’ve done was alter the normal BE voice to have some reverb or something.

Besides preferring an actual AR to a customization I am not going to be happy to have a San’layn customization that has a BE’s voice. That would be beyond wack. That would seriously just ruin the San’layn experience for me. I can’t over look it just like I can’t overlook the new skin/eyes combo and hear a normal BE’s voice. About to delete those characters I changed because they are just BE’s and nothing else.

To each their own.

+1 Playable Horde San’layn with unique voices

-1 Playable Horde San’layn with BE voices

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I do agree that them having normal Blood Elf voices sounds really off and unfitting.

Honestly, they should have just made it to where they use the Demon Hunter voices, as those would fit much better. Plus, it’d be easy to implement, as it already exists. Of course, they’d have to remove the Demon related lines.

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This would’ve been better than just plain BE voice, but I personally have a problem with taking from one class or race and giving it to another.

They took from Warlock and gave to Demon Hunter and they took from BE’s and gave to VE’s. Both lost something that made them unique and now both are more similar than unique. I am not a fan of homogenization especially with classes.

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Yeah, that’s fair. I’m still a bit salty that Void Elves even got the customization.

I just know how lazy Blizzard are, always choosing the easy way. Just like they did with the customization itself, unfortunately.

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Me too. Made absolutely no sense and if VE’s got it why didn’t Nightborne? Some have said it was already in the game for BE’s so they could just added it to VE’s, even though it does not make sense.

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Yeah, I guess if you don’t have the word “elf” in your name, than you’re apparently not an elf.

It’s a shame, too. Nightborne would have made cool looking Dark Rangers.

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I thought so too but I guess Blizz didn’t. Pffft, Blizz and their logic. It is so hard to understand them anymore.

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I mean, there are a lot of allied races which could just be customization options. Allied race just means they start at a higher level. The distinction is quite meaningless. They wanted to take this route and what’s done is done though.

Wowhead posted an article that goes through the entirety of the Return to Lordaeron questline with most text that is in the questline, such as quest text, spoken text, and so on. Even a bit from the Alliance version of the questline. Link is here:

Thought it would be good to link for referencing in the future. :wine_glass::bat:

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Just dropping in to voice my support.

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With the Sand Trolls, I kind of just assumed/headcannon’d that they joined in the background alongside the Zandalari. There are tribes from all over on the Speakers terrace in Dazar’alor, so it might make sense that some of them might also become friends (or at least frienemies lol) to the Horde.

But, yea, the limitations to character races is partly due to code issues. It’s not necessarily just spaghetti, as any database-driven thing is going to have problems dealing with outliers when it expects everything to fit into tidy binary or integer boxes. That they chose to expose it to UI as “here’s static Horde and Alliance races” made sense in the original game. Expanding this to allied races kinda made sense too at the time.

The bigger problem is that the game code and subsequent UI/presentation choices have kind of designed them into a corner. Going back to the Night Elf Worgen thing (not trying to hijack topic I swear lol, it just highlights the problem well!), how could they add that to the current design?

Can’t really add it as a customization option for existing Worgen, as the models and textures don’t work together. But randomly giving the Alliance another race without something for Horde would be unfair. And, in general, adding every race/group which should be playable could fill up the screen fast.

In theory, a tree style creator should still work with the allied race system. They’d just be displayed at the second level of the tree instead of the main screen.

The main difference in my proposal would essentially be an extra layer after picking a race which sets up appearance options/voice/curse (or blessing such as Lightgoats)/racials based on previous choices. This last layer could also inherit start level and zone from further upstream.

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I’m not against the idea of Sand Trolls becoming playable, even as a customization race. What I am against is something like Sand Trolls just being plopped onto an existing race as a customization option with no explanation as to why they’re suddenly part of the Horde. Headcanon should be supplemental and a fun thing for players to do with their characters. Not a requirement to explain why a group is suddenly part of the Horde/Alliance that everyone accepts without question and doesn’t raise an eyebrow at.

It’s something I worry about happening with San’layn just being plopped onto some parent races after being shown on a PowerPoint presentation. Sure, you could assume that something happened since BfA that let them join the Horde, but if nothing is shown in-game about it and it’s just a LARPing Blood Elf, complete with no changed voice lines and any vampiric themes whatsoever, it doesn’t feel right.

Honestly, looking at Dark Ranger customization kinda reignited my whole stance on customization races and how lackluster they currently are, which is kinda why I’m being vocal about it again. Just seeing the one skin for Dark Rangers with the eyes attached to just the one skin, voice lines not having any filters on it, and so on. It just felt incredibly empty to me. Sure, there was something to show Dark Rangers doing something more in the game’s story with them being part of the new Desolate Council, but it still doesn’t feel right with them as a customization race since they feel like they were haphazardly thrown onto their parent races.

I call it spaghetti coding because I imagine the coding in general is a mess since Vanilla coding is likely mixed in with current coding, making things in general more and more complicated to implement as time goes on.

I don’t see it as hijacking the topic. I think customization races really need to have a lot of discussion over it to give as feedback. Not just for San’layn, but any other customization races going forward.

A lot of us want races to become playable. We just don’t want it being something just thrown in without much thought or care. It’s good to bring these issues up, especially if San’layn would be destined to become a customization race.

As I said before, I’m not against customization races. I just want customization races to feel like the race they are and not the parent race cosplaying or LARPing, along with having an actual presence in the game and storylines. :wine_glass::bat:

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I also would’ve been cool with them using the regular undead voices. Better than the blood elf ones anyways.

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