I have edited it now to include it! Apologies for not making it more clear.
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Yeah I’d rather not have class locked stuff, DK had to pretty much give their customization to everyone else except skins (which I don’t mind myself) so there’s that. I was hoping DH customization would be on many other classes for felblood elf representation at some point too, but who knows.
Off-topic on-topic for this thread, though, Darkfallen really would need to include San’layn, as they were legit the original Darkfallen.
Not only is their unit label ‘Darkfallen’, but it is canon that they do actually call themselves it in game too.
Just to clear things up. I’m iffy on whether or not they’d be an AR, but if we get undead elves as playable called “Darkfallen”, it’d be ridiculous not to also have San’layn customization.
We also know that, again, the vampyr curse modifies those afflicted. We see it with Lana’thel and the Blood Princes. The Blood Princes clearly have claws (we never see their mouths, but like… come on, we should assume fangs. They have fang masks for goodness sakes).
Honestly, and I stand by saying this, the vampyr curse and the customization that comes with it could make for something really distinct from other elves, which is also why I think people consider ‘Darkfallen’ an exception. Not only that, but they do fit with the Horde - vampire elves, undead & Thalassian, without a home, etc.
However, they need to make the models distinct. Which is what I am concerned about… would they do so? It’s up for debate. I’m fine with a heavily modified Blood Elf Model, or one with customization that again makes them look SUPER distinct, but yeah. Food for thought.
And, again–we’re getting a race that has wings. So it’s reasonable to argue wings for Darkfallen, to be honest.
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I’ve been pondering some regarding what I’d want to see with San’layn if Darkfallen did become a playable race. Thought I would post some of my thoughts, though I really would like to see what others want of it as well, both for San’layn and Dark Rangers.
To be clear, we don’t know if the rumors are true if we’re getting at least one new playable race from Dragonflight preorders, and if we are, we don’t know what race or races would be part of it. This is just giving my own thoughts on the idea.
To be clear, the following is all in my own personal opinion and is far from perfect.
First of all, should a general Darkfallen race be made playable, I would like for it to be something both San’layn and Dark Ranger fans would be happy with.
I do want to see San’layn part of a playable Darkfallen race, though I know some people may not want vampiric features. This since Dark Rangers, from what we know, haven’t really utilized anything vampiric. This does come off as a bit tricky to design when it comes to racials and potential bat forms, though.
Second, if San’layn are part of it, I don’t want them to be given the Wildhammer treatment.
Sure, we’d be called Darkfallen in-game, and it’d be technically correct, but I do want to be able to be San’layn and acknowledged as such as opposed to LARPing as one and not having any story presence. Again, a bit tricky to think about if we’d have both San’layn and Dark Rangers part of the same playable race.
Third, I want a selection of classes instead of being locked to one class like the Dracthyr.
I’d like to see Darkfallen have a variety of classes to choose from. I’d hate to see them be only a Dark Ranger class, being locked to the Hunter class, or something like San’layn locked to a Blood Mage class. I don’t really expect there to be a new class or for it to be a trend with future playable races, and hopefully it won’t, but I felt that I should mention it.
Fourth, I would like vampiric themes and abilities for San’layn.
As mentioned, San’layn are classified as part of the Darkfallen. I would like some vampiric things to them, whether it is customization options, racials like a bat form of some kind, and so on. However, as I mentioned, it is a bit tricky if Blizzard would put Dark Rangers as part of it, who may not want that type of flair as part of their character.
So far, that is what I have thought of. I still think it is important for both San’layn and Dark Ranger fans to give their thoughts on what they want to see if Darkfallen become playable and includes both. I want to see San’layn playable, but not at the expense of what people wanting Dark Rangers playable would want.
Again, there is no guarantee that we’re getting a new playable race or races in 9.2.5 of some kind, and even then there is no telling what race or races we’d get if we do.
I’ll think on it more and see if I can think of other things or elaborate on points I made above. 
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I want San’layn racial mount to be the ability to turn into a little bat!
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Another thing I’ll add just thinking about it now is with regards to Night Elf Dark Rangers. Assuming that Darkfallen would be a sort-of neutral race, would that affect San’layn chances as part of the playable Darkfallen faction or would we also see Night Elf San’layn? It stands to reason that Night Elf Dark Rangers would be the Alliance version if semi-neutral playable Darkfallen happen and is something to address with our feedback.
I’m not entirely opposed to it, especially if it meant we’d have Thalassian San’layn on the Horde, but it’s another thing to consider with the potential of a Darkfallen playable race. If it were just Horde, then that’d be one thing, but with the rumor of there being one race, it’s something to bring up as well as there could be an effect on San’layn being part of it in general.
More pondering over it resumes, though again, I would like to hear some thoughts on playable Darkfallen in general.
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Funny thing about that. My initial thought when I came into this thread a few years ago was “San’layn? A Hunter one of those is probably the closest I’ll get to a Dark Ranger.” I hadn’t thought about San’layn for a long time at that point, and them being playable hadn’t occurred to me.
At the time I didn’t put any thought into the Dark Ranger’s banshee connection or any of that. I just wanted to be an undead elf. My first memory of that desire being strong that I can recall was back in Cata. I was playing a lowbie Blood Elf Warrior through the Undead areas, up into Gilneas, and wishing I could be playing an undead elf.
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I’m not sure “neutral” is the right term.
If Darkfallen became an allied race available on both factions, I would assume that when selecting Darkfallen as Alliance, you’d get an undead Night Elf character, and when selecting Darkfallen as Horde, you’d get an undead Blood Elf character. They’d have the exact same racials but different aesthetic options (one being Night Elf based and the other Blood Elf). I wouldn’t expect them to be affiliated in any way with each other or have a shared starting experience however.
The term “neutral” implies that race starts off as a single unified unaffiliated group and then chooses a faction to join (e.g. Pandaren). But if Blizzard were to implement it in the way I described above, neither group of Darkfallen would really have anything to do with one another. Their only commonalities being their state of undeath and racial abilities. In this case I don’t think “neutral” is an accurate descriptor.
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That is why I said “sort-of neutral.” It isn’t that a Darkfallen would choose between Alliance and Horde, but it would depend on your faction whether they would be an undead Blood Elf or Night Elf. This is assuming Darkfallen would count as one race as the rumors suggest there being just one forthcoming.
“Sort-of Neutral” is a bit of an easier way to say it.
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That’s how I would see it as well tbh. Like a flip side of the Demon Hunter divide, in a way, but instead of class, with a race?
IMO, I’d love if they had the same racials, but, say, NE get Soulshape and BE Door of Shadows heheh.
But yeah, I do think Darkfallen could be added as a way to cap our journey to the Shadowlands and take back with us some of that Shadowlands flavor, without actually taking races from the Shadowlands.
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I totally forgot that 
=> Frostborn Dwarf skin options for regular Dwarves (Light blue color)
I saw nothing about the Caverns of Time in the WoW Community Council section. I made a post about it and with the new expansion, Dragonflight, maybe that could be interesting to suggest that in the WoW Community Council to see what others think about that. Of course it’s only a suggestion and you do what you want. Feel free to add it if you think it’s a good thing. 
Here is my post about that:
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Well I’m for San’layn as playable race. But now that the Wildhammer Dwarves are just a custimization for regular Dwarves, I’m pretty sure we don’t get them as playable race except as customization. So if we can get San’layn as customization for Blood Elves, it would be better than nothing even if I want them as playable race (same thing for Forest Troll, Ice Troll, Man’ari Eredar, Frostborn Dwarf, Dragonmaw Orc, Dark Ranger). Having them as customization could be better than nothing even if I want all of them as playable race.
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Here are my 3 posts about San’layn with useful information about them if you need them. 
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San’layn as a customization race could work for Darkfallen, though if they went that route, I would like to at least see San’layn acknowledged as part of the playable Darkfallen faction.
Maybe have some Blood royalty around their racial hub helping to train some of the Darkfallen, assuming they’re treated like allied races, and a few regular San’layn with customizations you can have with your character. That could work alright with showing San’layn are part of it, though I still wonder how the Night Elf Darkfallen would be treated and if they’d have their own version of San’layn. Especially if we had San’layn NPC’s to go with Dark Ranger NPC’s for quests and storylines.
Of course, there is still the issue with racials and having a vampiric theme in general. Still, I would like San’layn representation in the Darkfallen faction and with playable Darkfallen at least.
Still a lot to think about and consider with this line of thinking. Will ponder on it some more.
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If we’re talking about a playable race, I’m sticking with my original desires, to be honest. Something to make the Darkfallen distinctly different. This includes bat-like ears, fangs (bonus: Different fang types), jet black & Crimson eyes, claws, and possibly other bat-like mutation options. I really do think they can be made super distinct and will fit on the Horde as an incredibly fierce elf. There could ne Nosferatu-like options and options to look really conventionally beautiful–that’s where the variation comes in that could lead to a lot of neat choices.
Best case scenario would be wing options for the San’layn, something I never pushed because I figured it’d always be a ‘no’. However, they’d get a lot of needed interest in the game, honestly, if they had more winged races. I’m fine with the ‘no cloaks’ rule if we’re able to have wing options.
Yeah, I think different vampyr options would be fine, but wouldn’t be required on every single model. They would be required as available, however. Darkfallen were vampyr elves, first and foremost, which is something super important I’ll be adamant that they should not drop. However, I’m not super concerned they’ll drop it, because they did mention in 9.2.5 that the San’layn are a “sect of Darkfallen”, so the race would likely include them.
Agreed, and this could be accomplished by a Zandalari-like racial for them. The class mount would be a concern, yeah. I really don’t think a Dark Ranger turning into a bat would be super unusual, to be honest, so a ‘turn into bat’ racial mount might work for both.
We would likely see Night Elf San’layn, yes. Technically the Blood Princes use a modified Night Elf model, if I remember correctly, but they’re Blood Elves. I’m not opposed to anything if it means we get San’layn playable on the Horde, to be honest. It’d be interesting to see how they’d look for sure.
See I thought Dark Rangers were vampires for the longest time, including Sylvanas 
I was sad to learn otherwise.
I think that’s fair, but with the loosening focus on factions, perhaps it would still apply, at least in some cases. Then you have to wonder if they would even be night elves. It could go to void elves (if they go the lazy road) should we find out that void elves can be vampyr, like Death Knights. (Remember, I’m opposed to void elf EXCLUSIVE vampyr options, not them getting it if it’s shared). Granted, this wouldn’t be on ‘void’ or ‘blood’ elves, it’d be vampyr Thalassian elves.
Though the creative road would be to also include night elves in this, yeah. For sure.
This, and I’ve seen folks mention several times, here and other places, that it’d be a cool way to tie this new expansion to WOTLK classic. A sort of promo-idea that’s relevant to WoW and going back to Azeroth too. Frankly, it makes sense to me. I thought if it pretty quickly myself too, then was delighted to see others echo it.
True, and I know some people would rather them be customization. Personally I prefer AR but would be okay with customization, hopefully if they actually add creative stuff and don’t get lazy with it. A Night Warrior-like questline would work for them in this scenario.
Yeah! Your posts are always cool, I love them. I know tons about San’layn but tend to forget little details at times.
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I AWAKEN (and can post here again, had to relog). Okay still sleepy, but delighted this thread is still going and seeing everyone push for more ARs and Customizations ^w^
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Honestly I do think most would agree that an AR with their own customization options would be best, but I do think that just customization options can work. I think even the bare minumum of textures would be sufficient, but some extra 3D assets could make it the best possible.
The advantage of customization options is that at the end of the day you can build on everything you already have and just add a bit more for that mix and match leeway.
But yeah, if they gave us unlocked DK skins + red eyes and that’s all we get, It’s better than nothing, and I’d be content with it. I really do think that if they just unlocked options that already exist in game, we could have so much more, so easily.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E9tdSt4XoAM7Ixd?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E9teOtqX0AADmDW?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
(Also sharing is caring, and many VE hair styles could work really well for Darkfallen, and I think you could also throw some NB for the NE model for parity)
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Here’s the pictures! Oh nice, I love it! I would want more than that and would keep asking though, I will admit, since bat-like ears and more gothic customization would be great, and I’d want fangs.
Welcome back! Yep we’re still going strong. Stronger than ever, in fact, since many folks speculate Darkfallen are on the table for the AR.
Speaking of which, it would be super ironic if we got Darkfallen through Calia I guess I would’t be allowed to hate her as much, huh?
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… I am in no way prepared for that.
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Yeah.
SPOILERS (do not click if you don’t want to be spoiled)
Last spoiler warning
In 9.2.5, there’s details on Calia & Tyrande doing something fishy. Might be relevant to the AR speculation.
https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/64974-whats-brewing-for-the-forsaken-in-patch-925/
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I clicked it anyway because I usually can’t resist when I someone says don’t do this. 
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