San’layn/vampyr Elf ALLIED RACE Coagulated Megathread of Ideas{Re-VAMPed} (Part 1)

Community General Discussion
8452

Oh dear >< Well, hopefully they hear their community and employees and make some real changes.

It’s a shame we will likely never get housing because it’s such an old game, and there’s likely no means to add it. Even guild halls would be lovely, to be honest.

I would write out a very detailed post on housing if I thought it would get anywhere, but my energy is spent here (and I already have, long ago, doubt they care about my feedback though.)

But, well. If they’re listening now to people in general, I hope they also look into the lore. Seriously, really hope. I know I sound like a broken record with this, but I want to return to Azeroth and fight the scourge. Legion was a return to demon fighting and it felt good even though it was a similar theme to BC. I’d love to return to Northrend, with all new models, et cetra.

And, of course, San’layn/the vampyr curse. To be completely honest, I’m turned off to everything Shadowlands. The vampyr curse is likely due to Revendreth, unfortunately, though it’s not confirmed. The origins are likely from the realm of death, regardless. They could have built an interesting story with it, but gods I hate the lore for Shadowlands at this point so much, I’ll just sigh… at least we’d get some answers and possibly customization/an allied race, though.

I really want them to explain the link between Vry’kul and the curse as well. Heck, seeing a mixture of Thalassian, Vry’kul, and human vampyr working together perhaps in Northrend, with free will, against the rampaging scourge would be super neat. I don’t know. The vampirates a few years ago got me excited, as did the BfA San’layn appearance. A shame that got nowhere, and now everyone uses that to shove into our face “Nope no san’layn they got declined” when in reality we still don’t know the outcome aside from Dreven dying, nor where the rest of the San’layn could be including missing blood princes, nor where Dreven even came from.

Will we ever know?

We’re a very small community, I feel, with a few of us asking these questions. So… I doubt it. But I’m going to ask them anyway, even if I’ve effectively moved on. Who knows, if conditions improve for people in the company, and if the game improves in many areas, it’s possible to return.

But they have a long road to walk. A very long one. I’m just one person, though. But. shrug Given enough of my ideas and contributions here only to be completely and utterly ignored. It’s disheartening.

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8453

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, this is probably one of the coolest ideas for a new race i’ve seen and I would bloody love them to be added some way to the game.

We could use a lot more races in the “neutral” faction apart from pandearan and I think darkfallen would fit here.

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8454

I’d be fine with neutral, as long as San’layn end up on Horde in some fashion. An Allied Race would be much preferred to me over anything, because there would be unique voicelines, dances, and they could work on features that make them stand out. Not to mention, they could mess with models, as well. I’d want them to keep the regal, beautiful elf look while still being haunting and monstrous in some fashion, perhaps through a variety of different offered options.

They could offer a twisted nosferatu face, and they could offer strikingly beautiful ones, I feel. The balance between how vampires are visualized.

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8455

Well since they’ve basically given Blood Elves to the sodding alliance, they need a new visual fantasy. It’s ridiculous.

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8456

San’layn and Dark Rangers existed far before void elves, so it does get tiresome seeing the alliance trying to claim ‘no we have goth elves’ when they’re now a copy-paste of blood elves. I don’t want to see one alliance player saying “this is our theme now” when San’layn/Dark Rangers not only existed far before void elves were even a thing, but undead = / = void by any means. They can have their tentacle horror stuff, we should have our vampire/undead themes, especially now. They’re called blood elves for crying out loud.

Now there’s no distinction or uniqueness to blood elves, and their entire appeal for me was when they explored the darker side of an otherwise ‘beautiful’ race in BC with their swap to relying on fel energy. Of course, now people are wanting to lightforge them or something, an idea I personally dislike and don’t want to see.

We’re on Horde. I want to see the darker, more violent side of elves, not some alliance stuff pushed onto us when they constantly beg for light themes on the regular. Most of them begging for the normal hair colors weren’t even interested in void elves from my observation. So honestly, leave the darker themes to the Horde, and the people who have been asking for years now. They got what they wanted, now it’s time BLood Elves got something distinct.

Edit: So I’d either see the San’layn as an allied race or customization with lore for blood elves.

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8457

More elves could be a good thing and as these have a solid background in lore I would be quite alright with the idea!

However I would suggest that they make them customizations rather than more allied races that have limited options. Better to add on 5 San’layn faces/eyes/hairstyle to blood elves than to make a limited allied race that’s stuck with only those 5. For RP purposes anyways that would do wonders.

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8458

Yeah that’s the really huge hinderance of allied races, and why I agree they would also work as customization. I do really want the lore aspect explored, so I was thinking something like a “Night Warrior Questline” to explore that aspect, and how they might end up joining the Horde. Going through that theoretical questline would unlock that customization for Blood Elves, hopefully. With any luck, they’re considering such an idea, if they’re open to more customization ideas. But yeah, I don’t like limitations, and having more options is better, so you make a good point there.

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8459

A questline ala Night Warrior to unlock the looks would be good! It prevents new players and those uninterested from stumbling into applying the looks without knowing what they are and what they mean and adds some weight to them.

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8460

Sort of think Kael’thas can reunite with the San’layn and join the horde. Idk, personally would be cool if we got san’layn customization AND venthyr support, seeing as Kael’thas is sorta good with them now. And I would just love for like a nightwarrior to be part of the horde (the stonewright). That also could be a way we get vampire druids to san’layn. The fury of elune and the bloodmoon. My hopes for san’layn shaman may also be lore plausible since there are plenty of sinstone and ash elementals. And they tend to use the light as a source of holy/fire magic. Love the sinstone golems, they could have that as an elemental glyph for shamans.

It seems Zovaal had Lana’thel’s soul so I can imagine freeing her soul would be a cool part of getting san’layn to join the horde somehow.

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8461

Speaking of Kael’thas, there is a new scene of Kale’thas talking with The Accuser, lamenting how he wasn’t the one to end Kel’thuzad. I assume this takes place after the raid he is a boss of.

You can read the scene here:

I wouldn’t know the direction Kael’thas is going, though I still think it would be interesting to see Kael’thas reflect on the San’layn, since they more-or-less became what they are following him in battle. Especially if Lana’thel’s soul is rescued and she has a talk with him as she was before becoming Blood Queen.

I’ll continue to keep an eye out for anything else of San’layn interest and report it here. :wine_glass::bat:

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8462

I am curious to see how Kael’thas’s story goes, and am hoping there is mention of San’layn somewhere, since they were his loyal followers. I hope that hasn’t been forgotten. I still think there’s merit to bringing him back to lead the Darkfallen/San’layn as Blood King. The horsemen, for example, were brought back. However, they did get a memory wipe… but that was prior to the Shadowlands being opened up, so we shall see if that has any effect (if it comes up).

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8463

Missed this one earlier hitting threads!

Still support San’layn!

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8464

Some speculation I’ve seen is that Kael’thas will become a Venthyr and join the Venthyr covenant…which would be a bit anti-climatic for several reasons, and not because of anything San’layn related.

There is something about the idea that Venthyr, the majority of which have sinned in life, yell at others who sinned in life also to get them to admit it and repent in some fashion, usually turning them also into Venthyr to handle others who have sinned in life, that just doesn’t feel right at all. Having that be what happens to Kael’thas…is a bit of a damp squib since, as I said, it’s the people of Silvermoon that should determine to forgive him as opposed to random beings in the afterlife telling him “Ok you’re all good, now become one of us and yell at other souls like we did and party all the time otherwise or go back and be judged again to go to some other afterlife.”

It really seems like there are things Kael’thas should do as a trial of redemption, as opposed to getting yelled at until he cries in a corner and then just gives in to be “redeemed.” It seems like a lame way to end his story if this is the direction his story goes, which may or may not be the case to be clear. Moreso when a lot of people feel Kael’thas was done dirty in Burning Crusade for various reasons.

In terms of San’layn, it would be great to at least have their existence brought up to Kael’thas, since the majority of San’layn were his followers. While him coming back as a Blood King and leading him would be neat and have a lot of potential, it isn’t the end of the world if he doesn’t or his story falls flat. There could be other San’layn, be it of Blood Royalty or lower class ones that lead the charge, that could be written as the leader of the playable San’layn faction. Still, it feels like Kael’thas should have something to do with San’layn in some fashion.

I’m sure I could go on with my thoughts on Kael’thas, but regardless of what happens, San’layn still have a lot of potential for storylines and such. We’ll see what happens and go from there when it happens. I’ll keep hope that we’ll eventually see San’layn brought into the picture soon, and hopefully into a spot on the Horde side of that character creation screen! :wine_glass::bat:

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8465

I agree. I definitely think Kael’thas should return to his people, which include the San’layn. I myself do not fancy venthyr or their lore at all, as I’m sure everyone knows by now, so to see Kael’thas go to them would be a major disappointment. They seem intent on really making blood elves exceptionally boring (to me personally) lately, so this would just be icing on that cake.

On the bright side, I don’t know if the speculation has much merit from what I’ve seen, given how he apparently didn’t get a final blow anyway. And there’s so much work to be done, as well, on Azeroth. His people are still suffering–including the San’layn, who we know still need a home. It would, I feel, be a perfect way in for an Allied Race or customization via night warrior questline.

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8466

As I said before, it shouldn’t be up to the Venthyr to redeem Kael’thas, but instead his people that should give him judgement.

Putting in the work as some sort of trial to make amends and get forgiven by Silvermoon would be a better note to end on than some cosmic being just yelling at him for all eternity and dragging him in chains until he gives up and claims he totally sinned in life. Especially when said Venthyr, The Accuser, is someone that did this:

“Her name was once Harriett the Crimson Shade. According to her, Harriett murdered countless innocents and orchestrated the deaths of even more, all for personal profit. She was also apparently misled into murdering her own daughter, Camille. Despite all the other murders she committed, this act would be the one sin she would end up regretting well into her afterlife. It is unknown when she became the Harvester of Pride, or what happened to the previous one.”

Not to mention that people have not been too happy with how Kael’thas was handled during BC, so to have it end with him just crying into submission and becoming a Venthyr, likely never appearing again, doesn’t feel like a satisfactory ending.

Kael’thas becoming a San’layn to become humbled and work towards redemption has a lot you can do with it. I’ve talked about it before in other posts, but it does seem a bit fitting. He has two major hurdles to overcome for redemption: Silvermoon and also the San’layn, who again became what they are because of him. It would make for a great storyline for Kael’thas to have to really work towards redemption in the living world while inflicted with the Vampyr curse his followers had to suffer with, especially if part of his redemption for San’layn is getting them into the Horde to be taken care of and accepted back into Silvermoon.

It isn’t the end of the world for San’layn if Kael’thas has another destiny, though this particular path seems rather fitting. We’ll see what happens and where the storyline takes us. If it isn’t meant to be, at least there are other ways to work with Horde-friendly San’layn. :wine_glass::bat:

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8467

I’ve still been playing, mostly on one character, doing the LFR raid and such, but not been on forums much. Building a house, so lot less time.

Just happened to check MMO-champ today and saw the bit about the new customizations, then a few minutes ago saw that they are even adding some more natural hair colors for void elves because people asked…

O_o what’s going on here? HAHA

This is nice to see.
Would really be nice if there was a shift to focusing on things players want.

That’d be pretty cool, I wouldn’t even mind if a vampire race was available to more than just the blood elf appearance, but it definitely should include it. I’ve still got my death knight waiting to race change :smiley:
I wouldn’t even mind seeing the void and lightforged being expanded to be more than just one racial type.

That’s not been a very popular way to go with things like the wildhammer, it sucked. Really needed to be it’s own race with voice lines and such.

Yeah, that’d be a cool way to go…I think it’d be neat if the same happened with Arthas. Lordaeron needs a king :smiley:

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8468

The way Wildhammer Dwarves were treated is why I don’t trust implementing races as future customization races.

I’ve harped on the subject multiple times in multiple posts, but I feel it is important enough to keep talking about it. Playable races need to have their own identity and presence in the game, as opposed to outright stapling them into core races and have them cosplaying/larping as the customization races.

San’layn in particular, while former Blood Elves, have become their own race with their own culture now. I strongly feel that they need to have their own race slot to be able to be given the love and care a new race needs. Pasting them onto Blood Elves has me worried that they would just be announced as a customization option, with no explanation of why they’re part of the Horde now, no identity, no storyline presence, and so on so forth.

Now, if a sub-race system had been created, I could see that working well with newer races in this system having the care needed to differentiate themselves from parent races. The allied race system, while I personally like it, has kinda muddied the waters in that regard and complicates things. I have heard rumors and “leaks” of Blizzard considering merging some races into core races into a sub-race system, but this was before Shadowlands and, quite frankly, hard for me to imagine them doing that at this point and time.

This of course doesn’t affect just San’layn. There are plenty of races I’d worry about just becoming customization races for various reason. It’d be like if Kelfin became a customization race for Goblins, but nothing is shown in-game of them officially joining the Horde, their NPC’s not active or present at all in future expansions and media, and also the same racials as Goblins complete with the ability to drown…for a race that lives in the deep ocean. These are the type of worries I have for future customization options.

As such, for the majority of races, I much prefer them becoming their own race as opposed to being slapped onto parent races as customization options. Honestly, I still think Wildhammer deserve better and would still work great as their own race slot, as well as making the Alliance feel more complete. Until Wildhammers get more love somehow, I will be very dubious to customization races in general.

Besides, there is plenty of room on that new character creation screen for awesome races people want to see. I’m sure San’layn would fit just fine on the Horde side of it. :wine_glass::bat:

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8469

Meh I would like a subrace system for some of the races that are very similar. That doesn’t mean they won’t get lore. It would just be a better quality of life thing for players of who played the old races. Earning new customization races for a race would be a nice reward, just like we earn new gear or mounts. The look would be a nice reward like skins in other games like overwatch. Where I just love the cosmetic skins. They could even be non-canon in some ways just to make the game more fun. In FF14 they have all these transmogs for heroes based in other games, like yuna, lightning, Squall and Cloud to name a few. So it would be a nice reward system to invest to regardless. Shadowlands let us change genders, so we know we can pick different bodytypes in the barbershop. I think a subrace system could work like that in the barbershop, and if they let us change how we identify that subrace system would be good for player agency. It would give certain races more value. And allow potentially more cool customization to other races. I know people want voicelines, I think they could allow us to pick the voicelines we want for a race fantasy if they invest in that. Which would be good for the wildhammer dwarves for example. My dwarves have wildhammer tattoos, I would be interested to see them get those voicelines, but I am just glad that at least visually they are playable. They just have to invest in a subrace system to identify as the race you want and add voiceline customization for races they mix (such as the highmountain tauren). Personally I love the highmountain voicelines and racials, but the baseline tauren have some good tatoo colors and heritage armor.

It would be cool to have non-cannon customization too like the overwatch skins I love collecting.

Part of the reason I advocate for the subrace system is because it seems allied races take a bunch of resources, and the sheer amount of races players want, a subrace system may be better overall to get more stuff out there. I say this because some races fall flat as allied races like lightforged dranei or HMT which I feel would have been better off as customization. I say this because we had cooler Tauren for example to choose from like the Yaungols and the Taunka which could have been better off. HMT feel too similar to Thunderbluff Tauren, which was the same justification for wildhammers not being an allied race potential, but I am glad they added them as customization.

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8470

Agreed.

Eh, nothing really needs to change for that though. It’s all just in the UI/character select.
All they needed to do was add wild hammer as an actual allied race.
Character select screen instead of having the various dwarf races, you just have an option that says dwarf and a blurb about it, clicking it then branches down giving the various types of dwarf races (bronzebeard, dark iron, wild hammer, frost ones, metal ones) from which you pick and customize.
It’s really how it should have been done.
It’s better for clarity too. Like with a new player, wtf is an allied race? They’d instantly know what a subrace is.
The EU forum had a pretty good mock up of how that could have been done.
Think they even had an option to customize which racials you had, which was a neat touch, but depending on balance, who knows if that’d work.

Having the races set up with their own voice sets and heritage armor and such really helps them feel a bit more unique.
Running around as a wildhammer, shouting the same voicelines as a bronzebeard feels bad.
Then even having voice sets being a bit of a customization option would be great.
You could have the regular human with some additional voice sets like kultiran or gilnean just to customize the origin of your character. Maybe a new one for stromgarde etc. Perhaps that’d be the subrace selection for humans, you pick nation of origin which just changes out your voice set. Or maybe have the skinny body type as well that people have asked for.

I found the link in an old post of mine, this thread had images of a great little subrace UI

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8471

I think as a player reward they would be more valuable as a customization you can change on a character via the barbershop. I am liking the feature to switch between male and female for example. That can be expanded to subraces. That’s how I sort of wanted them to be when we started talking about them in wotlk/cata when I started. Some of the dwarf customization was slightly altered to reflect the dark iron joining the alliance in cataclysm and them adding dwarf mages and warlocks. They got them because of the dark iron and were supposed to be how they were represented. Then we got the dark iron allied race and the real customization was in! I love dark iron it’s one of my favorite alliance races. The base dwarf got wildhammer which I love on my dwarves (I have played the females for a bit they make surprisingly fun monks). The wildhammer tattoos definitely help alot. I switched one of my dwarves to dark iron too. But I thought it would have been cool to just unlock that customization on my dwarf like a skin for other games. Sort of like the heroes of the storm skins, like the San’layn skins. Or other games that give the characters costumes/skins. One of my favorites being star ocean till the end of time!

If you play overwatch they have a nice skin system there. If they treated an expanded subrace feature like that we could get a ton of races as customization. They don’t necessarily be cannon in many cases. Just look at the Blackhand doomfist skin

Awesome stuff, imagine if we had that type of customization for orcs?