San’layn/vampyr Elf ALLIED RACE Coagulated Megathread of Ideas{Re-VAMPed} (Part 1)

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7975

Now that I have a San’layn model that is more similar to what a player character could look like, I retook a few screenshots in Ghostlands along with a few new ones with the new model:

At the middle of Tranquillien.

Running through the Ghostlands.

At Deatholme, which is one of the biggest contenders for a San’layn starting area for me.

In front of the banner, which is a Scourge symbol. Would obviously be replaced with a San’layn banner if this became their home base.

Doing a salute. Was starting to run out of time here and tried to find a few more screenshots to take.

And finally, in the middle of a dance. I guess in this case, you can pretend that the San’layn is practicing trying to be more spooky or something I guess.

Something that is interesting to note is that there are Necromancers in Deatholme. Several of them are around Dar’khan. If Blizzard ever wanted to bring him back, all that would need to be done is for some of the Necromancers to have gone into hiding, somehow stolen his body parts from Silvermoon, and when the Scourge problem happens during Shadowlands, the Necromancers take control of them, reraise Dar’khan, and then you have a cool storyline where the San’layn can come in, assist Silvermoon, and set up shop at Deatholme afterwards.

Obviously needs more fleshing out, but I wanted to float that idea out. :wine_glass::bat:

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7976

All of this talk about San’layn is good and all to brainstorm with suggestion tossing… but what about the now? ARE the San’layn in the Horde -now-? Were they let in? Did the Horde Embassy allow it after Sylvanas abandoned the Horde? Does her rule and say have any weight?

Blood Death Knights aren’t San’layn, and if a San’layn is seen, they’re generally killed on sight with no questions asked. Even the Ebon Blade would pursue without a second thought. So what gives?

7977

Yeaaaah, gonna need some receipts for this.

We invite them over for potluck and blackjack night while the papers are being processed.

They use San’layn powers, it’s in their writeup.

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7978

There are no answers to these questions, sadly this was left entirely open ended. The answer technically speaking is implied to be ‘no’, but other people will say ‘yes’ because there just… was no conclusion. We haven’t seen where Dreven came from, whether or not there were more in Nazmir, whether or not there were more on that ship (there were cating San’layn on the ship that weren’t dead, and it’s not like drowning will kill them), we don’t know if Nathanos’s ship went back to save the remainder of them (again implied no, but not a definite.)

I guess so, but at this point, we’re working with a literal vampire faction in the Shadowlands, gaining reputation with them, and all of that. I figure if we’re fine with working with vampires in the afterlife (Which while I do NOT consider them vampires, most people do), then they should be 100% perfectly fine and no longer kill on sight in a roleplay setting so long as they behave. I mean… think about it:

  1. We have Death Knights, who need to cause pain in order to not go insane, walking the streets and interacting with people.
  2. We have sentient flesheating zombies also intermingling with people on the Horde.
  3. We have Demon Hunters, who might as well be demons themselves (and…are, since they have demon souls now) widely accepted.

It’s not that much of a stretch to say that a San’layn would therefore no longer be kill on sight, especially since they expressed interest in joining the Horde in Battle for Azeroth (though there’s unanswered questions and nothing seemed to come of it.) If I was still roleplaying in game (which… I’m not, I don’t like shadowlands), I would no longer have my San’layn hide themselves with illusions for that reason. The moment we began working with Revendreth was the moment the ‘kill on sight’ thing became extremely ridiculous.

You would think, but after also seeing them work with a LICH… I don’t think working with San’layn is such a stretch either, especially since they have free will.

All that being said? We have no lore or answers for any of that. At all. It’s what’s so frustrating, and what I personally would love to see answered at some point.

Sadly, since it’s doubtful we will be touching on any Azeroth subject anytime soon, we won’t know for a couple years or more, IF they ever touch it again.

Though they have been seen in Legion (Vampyr vampirates & Tha’lena) and Battle for Azeroth (the big subject of your question). Dreven came out of the blue, we don’t know his origin. Will we get our answers? I’m hoping so, some day. Since we’ve seen them in those instances, we know, at least, they aren’t entirely forgotten about.

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7979

I half expected the OP to return to this thread after 7800+ posts, but this information is finally helpful from an San’layn expert. Expert? Idunno, you sound like one. (Compliment)

And yeah, it IS increasingly frustrating. From all the sources I’ve tried to search, it’s either an open end or dead end. I’ve seen people RolePlay them in places like Orgrimmar and Silvermoon, and it brings up uncertainty. "How do I react to them?

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7980

The OP is pretty odd, if I’m gonna be honest!

:stuck_out_tongue: Anyway, that’s some very good questions, and sadly there really is no easy answer at all. As someone who did roleplay them, my vampyr always hid their nature under illusions, that demon hunters & Spellbreakers could see through. If that happened, the San’layn I played would exit the premise hurriedly to not make a scene since prior to Battle for Azeroth, they were kill on sight.

Now… well. We don’t know. I use the logic: “We’re working with soul-drinking ‘vampires’ in the afterlife as heroes, and it’s not like that’s some big secret, so I feel like working with open San’layn isn’t that much of a stretch.”

I would say, maybe, they would be treated with a lot of wariness and even deep hatred, especially those afflicted by the scourge. They did show that there was at least a group of them wanting to finally have a home and fight for the horde (like Death Knights, and in Bfa), and we know they’re intelligent/have free will, so could make such decisions. I played my 'layn a lot like the mentality of Death Knights. I have an entire post on the headcanon I use for it since a lot is open ended.

All in all, I wish I did have a better answer for you. I guess I would say have your toon react as they would toward an ex-scourge, like if someone played a lich outwardly (which we do see in the ebon blade so would be viable). Probably not all too happy about them being there, but also likely not trying to butcher them flat out in the city AS LONG AS they are behaving well. In my personal opinion, if someone is playing a San’layn openly in the city, they’d better be behaving and very well, otherwise ICly you’d think they’d get slain by the guards.

I feel like in Silvermoon & Org, you could get away with more dastardly things on a Horde race that’s officially joined, but you have to be on your BEST behavior as something like a San’layn if that makes sense. This is due to likely being on such thin ice, but at the same time, we work with worse at this point, so would be permitted to at least be there an interact on good behavior.

Edit: I also roleplayed San’layn for YEARS and have a ridiculous number of vampyr characters. I still play them, granted, just in discord & with my guild. I was always someone to be super careful in cities, and I did play in them. My toons were hidden & on their best behavior. Nowadays it makes sense that San’layn would be more open, after all that’s happened, but they need to be super careful from my personal perspective. (This subject might be a good one to make a video on, I’m actually back to making videos again so who knows.)

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7981

Yesssss, a San’layn starter guide video or soemthing would be really cool

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7982

Yeah I plan on doing that and one for the headcanon blog post I did a while back, I think it’d be nice in a video format. I have this whole setup now and just returned, so I’ll add that ot my list of ideas :slight_smile: One of my ideas is “Top 5 things to avoid in roleplay” for things like “metagaming” or “Godmodding” (not ever telling people what to roleplay, I’m the last person who would do that. In fact “RP policing” might be on that list.)

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7983

Yes it is all good.

Don’t ruin it.

Sure why not?

They were on probation, and we have no hard evidence to say that they were not allowed to continue to serve. (of those who may or may not have survived).

Why not if they still serve the Horde?

Not really no.

Sure. Maybe.

Unlikely if they allowed some in.

Thats just you assuming.

Citation needed.

People want the race added.

How would your character react?

Not all members of the Horde may feel the same way. That said if a San’layn has pledged themselves to the Horde I imagine they’d be allowed to be… if not with a few warry looks.

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7984

Yay!

Also tangent, but since Dragons like to appear as elves usually (NO ONE [EXPLETIVE] WARNED ME ABOUT DADDY ELF AZUREGOS) is there anything stopping them from having a San’layn Dragon?

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7985

Hah! I had to look that up. As for that, dragons can take on any form I believe, so a San’layn form sounds perfectly reasonable. One of my infinite drakes does that, as a matter of fact! And since this toon, Fallynn, actually rescues and adopts dragon whelps, as they grow to drakes, some want to be ‘just like her’ so take the form of San’layn for their elf forms.

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7986

Dawwwww, little bb San’layn elves who are whelps (reminds me of MoP Wrathion. Throws tantrum, then turns into tiny whelp and flutters away).

And an Infinite, neat.

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7987

Cower before the lord of the legendaries, fools!

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7988

I imagine lore-wise they’d be treated no different to Death Knights, who even in Orgrimmar (a city full of Forsaken) were treated with suspicion and outright hostility in the lead up to SLs.

People forget a lot of the time that Death Knights are still maligned and hated by the vast majority of their people.

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7989

I have to wonder how far the San’layn working with the Horde news went. It’s possible Sylvanas kept working with Dreven mostly a secret, and that Rokkhan knew because he was stationed at the outpost in Nazmir. Talanji knew because she was there as well. I don’t know if anyone other members of the Horde knew unless Rokkhan or any of the grunts at the outpost mentioned it to others.

The thing to note with this is that this was done from the point of view from the Alliance, so of course the San’layn appear mean, bad, and scary. We don’t really have much to go on of how Dreven’s coven was personality-wise outside of what we see. Yes, he did munch on some Forsaken, but we don’t know if that was out of desperation, whether the Forsaken there were Sylvanas loyalists, or whatnot. It’s possible he was a power-hungry jerk that just didn’t care, but it’s hard to see all of the San’layn with a similar personality, especially since they’re technically freed from Arthas, so you’d think they would have some semblance of their previous personalities back. It’s unclear if any of the events were recorded there also, since it isn’t mentioned at all from the Horde questlione.

Even if Dreven was low on moral fiber, if San’layn in general were trying to join the Horde and reconnect with Silvermoon, I don’t see why Thrall or Lor’themar would turn them away. Surely, some of the Horde would know that they were similar to the Forsaken and then got their free will. Even Rokkhan seemed cool with it if Dreven’s coven was willing to work with the Horde.

Sure, some of the Horde may be dubious. Talanji would need to see the true meaning of Winter Veil especially, but that could tie into the reintroduction of the San’layn. Put them in a storyline and give a reason that the Horde needs their help with the San’layn wanting to both join the Horde and survive in a world that is against them. Make them united with the Horde when their allied race unlock scenario comes up, and there is a lot to work with there.

The only thing I can really think of in terms of current San’layn acting the way they do still might be something related to the vampyr curse. If such a thing is possible, then hey, we got another storyline to work with to free the San’layn and have them join the Horde that way.

The thing is that there is a lot of potential with what you can work with in making San’layn a playable race. I honestly see no reason why they wouldn’t be given a chance like with the Forsaken. There are likely a lot of San’layn around still, not sure what to do, and we don’t know the extent of what Sylvanas did to work with San’layn. let alone how many San’layn she worked with.

And besides, with Sylvanas out of the Horde and likely not coming back anytime soon, I feel like San’layn would get treated much better without her being there. She likely was just going to use them for her own gains.

Anyway, as myself and others have talked about, San’layn are much more than just mooks that are scary and mean just for the sake of it. If we’re letting Undead Humans and Death Knights into the Horde ranks, I really don’t see why San’layn would be such an impossibility.

I’m sure I could write more, but that’s all I can think of currently. As such, I’ll continue to give my support for them as a playable Horde race. :wine_glass::bat:

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7990

I remembered the Nightborne unlock scenario and remembered that Lor’themar would not deny any denizens of Silvermoon, aside from Void Elves, a pilgrimage to the Sunwell. I’m curious if that would apply to the San’layn as well, since if they regained their free will, some would likely want to see the Sunwell again.

This, of course, would be assuming that the Horde works with San’layn who are trying to join and have proven themselves. In such a scenario, I don’t see why they would get denied being able to visit it. Granted, I don’t know if it would have any ill effects om the San’layn to begin with, but it was a thought that came to me when I looked at the allied race unlock scenarios.

As I said, the San’layn would likely have to prove themselves to the Horde’s cause first, but still something to think about. :wine_glass::bat:

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7991

In the worst case scenario they can deploy more magical booms to sweep up all the ashes.

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7992

I can see the blood elves being weary about letting undead near the Sunwell.

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7993

I’ve been there like 3 times.

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7994

I’d make a joke about you being more fab than my Dark Ranger butt, but my mog still won’t load.

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