San’layn/vampyr Elf ALLIED RACE Coagulated Megathread of Ideas{Re-VAMPed} (Part 1)

Community General Discussion
7588

The forsaken should just get a new floating city like the maldraxxus ziggurats.

Kael’thas was cool for this week. I get strong San’layn vibes, especially since I believe he uses the same shaders from a San’layn Kael’thas skin from Heroes of the Storm! I also find it interesting his title was Lord of the Blood Elves. As if to say stay away void elves lol.

I also find it interesting that the Venthyr seem to be weakened by the sun in the zone, and to contrast the sunwell of the blood elves and Kael’thas. A sun focused civilization - the blood elves. The captured Naaru also is a nice nod to what happened to the blood elves. I believe this is foreshadowing of a future addition in later patches, similar to how we got hinted at horde NIghtborne in the Argus patch.

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7589

As you say those are a Maldraxxi thing, and I would rather the Forsaken not lean into Scourge/Maldraxxi aesthetics any more.

Also Dalaran’a thing is that it’s THE flying city, they’re not gonna have something step on its floaty toes.

Something to think about, while it plays off the sun hurts vampire aesthetic it’s not just light but concentrated Light (big L) where they invaded the Shadowlands previously. It’s entirely possible that concentration of malevolent Light could hurt other denizens of Death.

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7590

The forsaken identity is being former scourge. They also have the lordaeron aesthetic that they sort of fused with the Maldraxxus identity. Seeing how the death knights summon undead (and necromancers) from Maldraxxus. The lich king’s knowledge of undead force wise seems to come from Torgast and Maldraxxus. And creating liches and summoning them into the realm of the living. I totally think it would be a form of horde dalaran if forsaken get floating ziggurat technology.

I just got a Venthyr follower (Simone) who really uses a mirror to do holy damage to enemy minions. I find it funny how the vampires use the light as a weapon. I have to think San’layn and Venthyr would be able to use the light somehow. The Naaru stays in Revendreth, and admits that it would be seen as an abomination if it returned to it’s peers. It’s quite interesting to see where lore is going. Seems the light will be involved.

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7591

That’s a small part, being enslaved by the Lich King is not something to be proud of or build on, just like Orc identity shouldn’t lean into being fel crazed slaves of the Burning Legion.

This is what should be built on, that they’re the unliving people of Lordaeron, not Scourge 2.0

The only thing I want from Maldraxxus is Alexandros, can we have him as Forsaken leader?

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7592

I have yet to level my Maldraxxus guy. But Forsaken seem to be in the mix of evolving their identity. It was not long ago that Blizzard was planning on killing them off in BFA. And the whole undeath angle and Shadowlands breaths new life into what the undead are and are capable of. Maldraxxus and the forsaken are interesting as they have unique models and origins. The plague of undeath and all the Forsaken were influenced by Maldraxxus. The Jailer controlled the wearer of the helm of domination All the lich king’s forces in ICC have been sort of mortal replicas of the 4 realms we venture with. ICC is a mirror to the maw. The architect especially, ICC being made of old god blood is interesting. We see many of the BC enemies within the expansion. Kael’thas, Lady Vashj. I would think Illidan will come back in a future patch. I hope nerubians make an appearance as well.

It is a part of who they are now. The former scourge army have been involved in the scourge. They deploy scourge technology and strategies that have been shown to also be shared with Maldraxxus. Even the madness from the plague users is shown. Abomination units having a proper origin in Maldraxxus is also interesting. The forsaken using more Maldraxxus assets would be fitting. But then again we do not know where Blizzard is going to take them. I wouldn’t mind seeing a military split in idealogies. Forsaken learning of the Maldraxxus ways would be fitting for new forsaken heroes. I like how Necrolord ethics are wild and different from other realms, similar to the forsaken. Let’s not forget the orcs kept their warlocks to boister the armies of the horde. Ziggurats would be a nice way for the horde to get aerial combat using undead technology, and it’s capabilities would compare to lightforged and dranei ships.

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7593

Something I was thinking about was the Venthyr’s ability to turn others into Venthyr and whether that could be related or not. Granted, it’s much different from vampirism, in my opinion, since Venthyr turn someone regardless of their race into a Venthyr fully, whereas vampirism would have the being turning into a vampire still retain their race in some fashion from my understanding. Whether the curse could have come from a variation of that power or not is unclear.

It may not mean too much since Kyrians do roughly the same thing with their covenant members, but was still something worth nothing IMO. :bat:

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7594

I favor showing the forsaken side of loss, I’m kinda sick of the whole “OH NO EVIL ZOMBIES AAAAA” nonsense Blizzard seems to be injecting into them. There’s peoplle there with their souls, minds, and personalities in tact that have gone through horrible loss. Forsaken civilians still exist, and they lost their city now because of this ridiculous war.

Everyone likes to blame ‘the entirety of’ the forsaken or ‘the entirety of’ the Horde for the burning of Teld and every other problem. But storywise, that makes 0 sense at all. We’re not some mindless drones. There’s different parts to every story, and you can bet there’s many in the Horde/Forsaken that were completely against what happened.

Sadly, people can’t see past that ‘other team’ mindset, which is infuriating. Also why, when I heard about some of the Night Fae campaign giving the Horde a hard time, I rolled my eyes hardcore. “Power of choice” doesn’t exist in this silly game, it seems. What about characters who wanted no part in Teld? Or Horde members who wanted to save some night elf civilians? My characters sure did, because they fight for Azeroth, not a tyrant.

So. It’d be nice to see reflected the other side of things for once. Just like how Frostwolves were shown as the other side to orcs, with true honor, and all that sort of thing. Not just mindless rage. It’s a BAD story for every single individual of one race to mindlessly follow the trend of another. And I’m sticking to that opinion.

I was thinking about the Night Warrior-like questline some more, and while no doubt I was very much favor an allied race, that option, as I said, is still a great one on the table.

And I expressed what customization options I want to see, and some meat of the story… but not, well… who :stuck_out_tongue:

Personally, I simply loved the Vampirates questline in Legion. So I wanted to put my idea out there.

https://static1-www.millenium.gg/articles/0/58/50/@/63192-1145169-finley2-orig-1-article_m-1.jpg

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Sir_Finley_Mrrgglton#:~:text=Sir%20Finley%20Mrrgglton%20is%20a,or%20"League%20of%20Explorers"

Look at him! He’s adorable! But no, really! Think about it! Mrrgleton was the one doing research in Stormheim on the vampyr curse. What if he met with some friendly San’layn hiding out, and worked with them to find out the origin of the vampyr curse some more? Make it like an adventure! And you as the player character would help out with this as the questline!

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7595

Ima need receipts that Blizzard was going to kill off an entire player main race.

I missed the Night Fae wing of ICC :3

Does that still hold true? I believe ICC and the Dark Portal predate the Old Gods arrival but my knowledge is fuzzy there.

Not in the slightest. Forsaken are very much not the Scourge.

They have individual warlocks yes, they’re not a core part of their identity (I don’t think I’ve even seen an Orc warlock outside of that Legion NPC with the flaming hair) or society. If you were to ask people what made up Orc’s identity and culture you’d get a lot of answers but Warlock would not be on that list.

The Horde has zeppelins and Wyverans, we’ve had aerial combat for awhile. And this would also take away from Knights of the Ebon Blade, whose base is Acherus. You start giving everyone flying cities and it takes away and makes things a bit over the top, and not in an interesting way.

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7596

I love Finley! And yeah a quest involves with him living with and documenting the San’layn would be hilarious and adorable.

I’m Night Fae on my Hunter and what I saw was understandable

Summary

Shandris would prefer to work with absolutely anyone else but changes her mind really quick when she realizes you have the soul collector thingy and are sincere and the night elf souls you do manage to save are grateful but mention they don’t think they’ll be able to let go what happened. Which to me is understandable, it’s certainly not the “you’re evil and I hate you and you should feel bad and you’re evil” constantly being spewed that people hyped it as. Even Tyrande pretty much ignores you since you’re not Sylvanas.

Amusing tangent, this expansion, I’ve freaked out no less than three people when I use the cannibalize racial, a lot of people forget we have that :3

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7597

Argh now I really want to see this becoming a thing, because it does make sense. It would be super adorable, and could have some serious elements too (like the Vampirates questline gave some SUPER neat lore that I adore, as small of a bit as it was) but also just… show the lighter side of things. Like a San’layn could joke about and be light-hearted, while still having the inner pain from being a scourge puppet.

That’s fair! I do wish that there was an option to say “Seriously, my character had NOTHING to do with Teld”. GRANTED, my situation is odd, since in character, mine are neutral and have been for a while. A LOT like the Ebon Blade.

Makes sense :stuck_out_tongue: And like, it’s going to sound twisted and weird? But you can use that ability and still not be evil at all. Just like blood-drinking. Using it on enemies, those that threaten your family and loved ones. I don’t see that as evil at all. Though I play Death Knights and appreciate Demon Hunters. So the concept of: ‘using what’s considered to be more dark methods to protect your people’ is something I love. I think Forsaken, lorewise, can restore their flesh and heal with Cannibalize too, which is why I still think un-hunched and non-decayed forsaken can be a thing. A dark concept, as in, beauty hidden behind the fact that you cannibalize often, but an interesting one nonetheless. Especially applied to an antihero concept.

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7598

All the juicy What We Do in the Shadows references hehe

Coming from the victim’s viewpoint that probably wouldn’t do much good, and I’m not sure how I’d feel about dialogue that consisted of your character trying to distance and other the situation like that to absolve their own conscience, saving the souls does more than words would ever do and I’m more than happy to keep doing that it. I didn’t think it would be possible to “fix” anything after Teldrassil but this at least gives us something. But I’m empathic like that.

Ye!

Yep yep. Which is why, I believe, the civilians tend to be worse shape than others since they tend to not want to do stuff like that.

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7599

Speaking of the Light and Fangs, the Light Defense WQ is horrific and I had waaaaay too much fun with it.

Lyudoyed: "Oi! No jaywalking! brandishes mirror with malicious intent

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7600

It was discussed in the BFA blizzcons before it’s release. You can try to dig it up in some interviews. I opposed it in the forums some time ago. Teldrassil was supposed to burn and the Undead were supposed to be wiped out leaving the player character’s the only ones still alive. Slyvannas instead just nuked her own city and evacuated the undead to orgrimmar which was better for the story. The night elves got a city sacked and people killed, but not plain old wiped out.

We had Dreamwalker which was the night fae part, the “nature” wing or dragon wing. We see Ysera now in Shadowlands an excellent mirror to the Dreamwalker fight, which we were wondering why the Lich King took her? It seems the Lich king sort of tried to mirror the shadowlands. San’layn = Venthyr, Blight wing = Maldraxxus, Val’kyr = Bastion, Dreamwalker = Night Fae.

ICC is made of Saronite. In lore it has been sad that is the blood of the Old God Yog-Saron. Saronite= Saron

Forsaken are former scourge, and former Lordaeron humans. They take aspects of both and mesh them into what they are now. And any new influences such as Maldraxxus (where some probably came from as well) would be nice. Them discovering the whole new lore of death would be a good culture shock for them. They also forgot everything that had occured when they were in the shadowlands. Imagine if they had remembered their memories their before they were raised.

It is still a part of their military culture. Scourge tactics and weaponry, which we now see is based of Maldraxxus stuff, and the same Maldraxxus plagues. Them being raised by the Lich King and a sword made by the Jailer is also interesting.

The alliance already had it in the form of Dalaran when they weren’t Nuetral. And the Death Knights sort of took away from Forsaken Identity anyway and gave it to the alliance as well. Forsaken getting Ziggurats wouldn’t be bad and it would enhance their plague bearing ability in the future. We probably will have to fight new baddies that are tougher then the Jailer eventually.

7601

Saying the Lich King was trying to copy the current Shadowlands zones and capturing Dreamwalker to copy Night Fae is a bit of a reach there.

That’s not a good reason for them to try and copy it though, no more than them copying Bastion or Ardenweald or Revendreth.

“Hey these are things the original Lich King based the Scourge on, we should copy them!”… no?

They don’t lose their memories, of their life or their brief time being dead. The Darkshore Dark Rangers are so effed up because they were in the Maw before they got pulled back.

Dalaran as an Alliance city was grounded, its existence in WoW as a flying city has always been neutral. Except for the brief stint when crazy Jaina took over and no one liked that.

When? Knights of the Ebon Blade are neutral as can be, they’re not Alliance.

There’s more to the Forsaken than the Plague, we’re not Scourge 2.0.

And? Due to the nature of the game we’re always going to be fighting new threats. Not really a justification for copying the Scourge or Maldraxxus instead of building upon the non-Scourge elements.

7602

4 out of 5 ain’t bad.
We’ve got Vampires, Val’kyr, Undead, and the Maw aesthetic and the Lich King armor is very Maw styled being a soul(s) trapped in armor.
He just got the death knight eyes from the Queen :stuck_out_tongue:

They’re also linked to troll culture.
Stepped Pyramid/ziggurat

7603

I believe the Zandalari found the pyramids and inhabited them. Since it was close to the titan facility, it’s safe to assume it was the titans. And they were experimenting on loa close by. As they are similar facilities to the titan stuff in Uldum.

The Jailer influenced the Lich King. Arthas had actually held the influence of the Jailer back. And so did Bolvar, else they would have been much stronger force as they wanted to keep building an army. And with the Dreadlords seemingly infiltrating the burning Legion and other cosmic forces armies we will see how that story plays out.

7604

Wasn’t really talking about the Zandalari, there’s ziggurats pretty much anywhere we have trolls living. Although Dazar’alor, if it was built by titans, as suggested by the presence of the Great Seal, could be why trolls latched onto the look after using it as their capitol.

Big part of why he doesn’t belong in the Maw. He did a lot of good, including burning Stratholme. He just should never have gone inside. Lock it up and set it on fire.

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7605

Yea Uther made that mistake. But then again he had half his soul taken into the blade, maybe that was the part that had restraint. It is interesting how now we can Blame the Jailer for all that happened in wotlk. I believe Arthas should have gone to Bastion or Revendreth.

7606

Wanted to wish everyone here a happy New Year!

I know it has been a rough journey lately, what with the carrot dangling in BfA and the whole Venthyr appearing in Shadowlands, but I’m hoping support for playable San’layn will continue to be strong. I still have hope and think it’s important to keep showing support as best as we can.

As I said before, I am with y’all all the way, for better or worse. I do have a couple ideas for writings I’ve been trying to form in my head which I’ll share here as soon as I get the chance to better translate it from ideas in my head to text on the computer screen.

In the meantime, have a fun, happy, and safe New Year!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMigvEm9Pgk

San’layn for the Horde! :bat:

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7607

It’s also an important narrative element people keep missing…why discarding memories are important to doing the job of an ascended.

Maybe Revendreth if it’s decided he needs to atone…but maybe Maldraxxus after? Most of what he did was out of defense…could he be considered selfless for Bastion? I was thinking the same originally. He could go hangout with Alexandros :stuck_out_tongue:

HAPPY NEW YEAR ALL!

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