San’layn/vampyr Elf ALLIED RACE Coagulated Megathread of Ideas{Re-VAMPed} (Part 1)

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Eh, maybe?

I watched the entirety of the VoD, and I guess there are a couple statements that you can take in certain ways depending on whether your perspective is one skewed towards optimism or pessimism.

The pessimistic take; Ion said that the move from Alpha to Beta (which will happen next week) signals that the framework for all the core features of the expansion is complete. Their focus in Beta will be more on fine-tuning, but we shouldn’t expect dramatic new feature reveals to happen halfway through the beta testing. Now, whether or not they consider additional character customization options to be part of those major features is anyone’s guess.

The optimistic take; Ion also quite clearly called out the art department responsible for making these customization options and said they are closely monitoring how the reveals thus far are being received by the community. This strongly implies that what we’ve seen thus far in terms of cosmetics aren’t going to be the final say on what makes it into Shadowlands.

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Every time I see this topic back on the main page I get this tiny brief feeling of hope, but…

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I’m likely going to repeat myself on stuff I’ve vented about multiple times yet again, but nuts to it, I need to let my fingers fly as I get my thoughts out. Time to vent once again!

The thing that bothers me the most with San’layn, and the whole reason I got on board with support with them, was their appearance in the Alliance war campaign. The comment from Rokhan in particular just makes me feel like it’s a huge missed opportunity. I can’t even tell if they were planning them as an allied race or whether they were just put in as “monsters” for the Alliance to have a fist-bump feel good moment. Not to mention all the radio silence during BfA and waiting to see if there was anything else for San’layn, only to get nothing at all.

If allied races weren’t a thing in BfA, I likely wouldn’t have thought much of them, but it seems really odd to do that with San’layn and then…completely forget about them. I don’t even get to interact with them at all as a Horde character, and as “champion” of the Horde all I get to do is get called on to end world ending threats and then get promptly ignored by the Horde council, and all I’m left with is still worrying we’d see the San’layn just as Sylvanas’ minions, where they will be slaughtered by players for phat lewts and forgotten about quickly.

It’s not really a matter of wanting San’layn specifically, and I promise my ire isn’t just me kicking and screaming for not getting what I want. I actually like seeing story potential with different things in MMO’s, and any other NPC race in place of the San’layn that ended in the same result would likely get me feeling the same as I do currently. Just seeing story opportunities fly by makes me want to bash my head against the wall.

If BfA isn’t the time for San’layn, and they aren’t making any appearance so far in Shadowlands…when exactly is the best time for them? If anything, they’re likely to still be viewed very dubiously thanks to Sylvanas going insane and having a genocidal hissy fit, and this is assuming that they don’t show up at all and especially aren’t aligned with Sylvanas. You’d think an undead focused expansion would’ve introduced them finally, not to mention making them a pretty neat pre-order bonus for said expansion.

But no, nothing about it in BfA, and we’re left twiddling our fingers waiting to see what happens or if anything happens.

It’s also not just the San’layn thing that bothers me. The Unshackled get the short end of the stick as well, just being…there with no fanfaire or anything. Ogres also get forgotten once again, and so on so forth. Now we’re going into an afterlife where we go from DIRE SITUATION OMG EVERYONE WILL DIE IF I DON’T ACT to getting drunk off bloodwine in regular parties with a group of vampires…and not the ones I want to actually hang out with.

…man, this livestream really put me in more of a sour mood than I expected. I try to be positive and want to continue supporting the races I want playable, but…honestly, sometimes it gets hard to keep hope. x- x;

Anyway, sorry for being all “grumble grumble” today. Maybe I’ll go look at some lizardmen stuff for Saurok idea inspiration or something after I try to finish this assignment. I need something to get my mind off Shadowlands.

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Yeah it’s something to consider; how much has changed from beta to live anyway via past expansions? Is a lot added due to feedback or is the precedent set for very little changes?

And I don’t think stuff should be removed, granted. I just want to see far more variation and such. I expected far more than…this.

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Blood Elves have been through an ordeal, this would make a lot of sense. Now that you’ve put the idea into my head, I’m a little disappointed it isn’t already a thing, and I hadn’t already thought about it.

Those of you with artistic talents should meme the jewelry.

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Historically, not a whole lot. But we’re also in relatively uncharted territory here. The purpose of an alpha/beta is to test the underlying core systems of an expansion, which is why they constantly talk about what covenants bring to the table and why GD considers it to be one of the most controversial topics of discussion. Like it or not, covenants (and to a certain extent Torghast) and their impact on the Shadowlands experience are the defining aspect of Shadowlands, so much of the testing and discussion on the PTR and beyond are going to be centered around that.

This thread (not to single you guys out, because virtually every allied race thread shares this characterization as well) is primarily concerned with aesthetic character customization options. Those aren’t things that traditionally require extended periods of testing in order to implement, and where we’re in uncharted territory is the fact that BFA more or less turned into a major watershed moment in that department. There was no point prior to BFA where the player received this many new updates to character customization, and Shadowlands is only doubling down on how much power players have in that regard.

So if the question is “would additional character customization options or allied races require extensive beta testing, or could they otherwise simply be added in at a later date?” I guess the answer is… it’s complicated, but only because we’ve never really been here before.

I’d say there’s enough of a reason here for us to at least accept it as a possibility. I’m not a game dev, but I don’t see why the team’s artists can’t continue to work on character customization even as the game approaches mid-to-late stage beta. Hell, they can keep doing it even after Shadowlands officially launches if players really want it. They kinda-sorta did it for the night elves with the whole Night Warrior questline about a third of the way through BFA.

Yeah… I hate to say it, because I know a good portion of people were apparently pretty incensed when they disappeared from the PTR, but I always thought those body jewelry options… uh…

… they really looked awful, guys.

In addition to that, the game’s design philosophy around armor sets these days completely negates the impact of tattoo/body jewelry options anyway. The ability to hide armor is great, but I don’t really like the fact that we basically have to make a decision about whether to show off a key character customization or just have transmog.

This isn’t necessarily me asking for “more skimp mog,” but I do think it’s a problem that the in-game armor sets aren’t designed with the consciousness that tattoo/jewelry options exist, if that makes sense.

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We do also like discussing the lore of it. We have already heard blizz say they have no plans for allied races in 9.0. 9.1 and above are good candidates for allied races. Although by the looks of Ion it seemed like they really weren’t planned and he said the focus was on getting the base races customization. Now we don’t know if in Shadowlands they will continue focusing on customization unlocks perhaps like the nightwarrior unlocked a set of eyes. Perhaps we may see race unlocks like that regularly or in intervals of patches for certain races. Similar to how in BFA we continued to get allied races. Shadowlands would be an ideal time for some new allied races to join, especially undead type. 9.1 would be the ideal time to get an allied race after we dealth with the first or 2nd raid. I think this would be the ideal time for San’layn if Kael turns out to be an ally and has a connection with the San’layn his former most devout soldiers that were murdered by the lich king. If I had to bet I would pick that time for a release for customization/allied race.

Now I see articles pointing to a fall release of shadowlands.

So 9.1 may be in Winter 2021.

We know we have 4 covenants that were also flagged as allied races this may be the time for them as well. The story seems to be setting up more cosmic lore. Where 9.1/9.2 will be headed is hard to predict but usually we have content relating to the lore for allied races to be released. Arthas is also set to be in shadowlands and he may or may not be related to the plot which is another chance for San’layn to be dragged in somehow. Right now we have San’layn connections with the vampire covenant and the Nathrezim, we have all that lore to explore in that covenant. We have have demon’s be connected to the vampire curse if we find out the connection to the Venthyr as they were modeled to the imagine of the first Venthyr, so that’s a good thing to explore. I do have some hope. We also have to see if the San’layn will be on Slyvannas’ forces at all. It is shown that the Jailor has an army comparable to the burning Legion, they may not need San’layn to be in that army. We know the ebon hold joins us in our assualt to the shadowlands, the ebonhold already has liches so San’layn joining them would be interesting.

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I don’t have enough artistic talent to meme yet :stuck_out_tongue:

The best I got is my monk of whom has facial piercings and a chipped ear drawn be a beginner artist (me)

Agressive_ana.jpg1504×1830

Those are some good points and yeah, as much as the systems don’t interest me, it’s fair that it’s main talking point because most of the game is tailored to those that PvE. The fact that customization doesn’t really need extreme testing is a good thing, you’re right, because indeed it’ll leave possibly more room for various things to be added based on feedback. They did change their minds about the blue eyes issue, likely due to the bombardment of feedback.

Now, we’re not bombarding and sticking to just this thread, with a few miffed-off posts here and there sprinkled in for desires of playable vampire elves. I don’t know if our voices will be enough, but it is important that we do keep voicing our desires and wants for exactly these reasons.

This is why facial piercings and hair customization is so important to me. Those things you see far more, and I’d be happier if we had a bit more variation in necklaces too (along with, again, chokers, as we’ve seen directly in the blood elf cinematic itself.)

Think it added a skin as well, but anyway I do really like the idea of more Night-Warrior-like unlockables, because I still think if we don’t get San’layn as an allied race, something like that would plug up a lot of holes and give us a decent compromise. While I really, really, really want the jokes, flirts, etc. unique to San’layn as an allied race, I’d have to settle.

Obviously, we all know I favor San’layn = Allied race above anything else, of course. Or even "Vampire, which could encompass San’layn, Venthyr (if they can leave Shadowlands), and human vampyr as well. The only issue would be the voicelines, as three of the above would reasonably sound vastly different…and they have different models, so would need different dances. It’s a pandora’s box if they ever decide to that drastically put three skeletons together, but you never know. In this case, I assume the race would be neutral.

Also a good point, and something neat I’d like to see. I really do hope they connect Kael with the San’layn in some fashion. I know there’s very heavily mixed feelings as to whether or not he should come back, but who knows what’s in store and what they have planned.

That would be super neat, yeah. Imagine if each covenenant got an “Allied Race” linked to them that could work on Azeroth. Liches representing Maldraxxas would be neat, granted they’d have to be ‘nerfed’ a bit. Still… never know!

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Orcs got this glowy yellow color, I doubt it means anything for other races but I figured it was worth dropping here. That beard also looks different on alpha than on live.

Also, props to Blizzard for finally making eye color and face style separate. For years the only face style with a blue eye color for orcs has made us look constantly pissed and we can finally fix that.

My shaman is one step closer to looking like Thrall

Female orcs got tons of earrings and two necklaces, we’ll see if their style of necklaces transfers over to anyone else besides maybe trolls.

Also I’m sure you’ll be delighted to hear, blood elves got more stuff! And it’s more of the oh so loved body jewelry :crazy_face: /s

Allied races also got a bit. So they are reversing their allied races stance.

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Ugh that looks so cool. I wish we got a fiery color on elves, admittedly, aside from just “glowy glowy light”. But, it does make sense for orcs and does look super neat. If San’layn ever get put in, I know there’s an amber eye color that one of the Blood Princes has… one sec.

googles

Well ok, this one is more white/silver?

Ok this guy has purple :smiley:

AHA OK I FOUND IT!

More of a dull amber.

Yeah I’m pretty happy about that one to be honest. It’s one of the things I’m looking forward to. One of the few >.> Especially for goblins, I’m excited to be able to choose different eye colors for my lady goblin!

I really really really wish these jewelry options would transfer across races especially of the same faction. I mean, again, we’ve been intermingling for over a decade now, yes some individuals would be inspired by other races and adopt their style in some way.

Ooooh yea, there’s a rant from me about that nonsense above already. Needless to say I am the opposite of impressed.

I know I brought this up already but I will continue to because it seems like it’s not being emphasized enough :stuck_out_tongue:

Night elves got chokers–so where are blood elf chokers? We have them right here in the official cinematic. ARGH.

Hopefully the “no allied races planned” stance too. :smiley: Crosses fingers hardcore for San’layn consideration

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Listen there’s tons of things missing for orcs that I dearly want, like pre-existing skin tones and clan tattoos, but my god this is a great start. I’m very happy with what we’ve gotten at the moment. It’s not like we went 14 years without male nose rings despite 80% of male orcs in artwork using them and 95% of CGI orcs

We got this white-ish green skin tone I’m totally using on my warlock

And finally Ner’zhul style face paint, he’s been portrayed with it since WC2 Beyond the Dark Portal

I’m liking how we can finally look more like famous orcs like Grom and as a result and are starting to be able to look a lot more intimidating.

I’m hoping for more ARs and could rant for forever about them

This guy gives the entire Alliance a bad day by just looking in their direction

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First time here, just wanna say hell yeah.

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With the heaps of new options other races are getting, I hope and believe that Blood Elves still likely have more on the way, especially with the potential that was there by default, nevermind with all of the feedback we as a community have provided in addition.

I also subscribe to the the belief that Blood Elves may be pushed to the rear due to the highly polarized opinions regarding Blood Elves and that the reveal of Void Elves was possibly a litmus test of sorts to gauge reactions. Hopefully our voices come to some sort of fruition.

The jewelry seems like a safer thing to reveal right out of the gate and I highly hope that’s not it, though I refuse to believe that either. I do agree we need not only chokers, but I’d love the tiaras/diadems as well.

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Ok, after that venting I did, I feel a bit better. I’m still not overly fond of Shadowlands’ offerings in general, but I’m not as grumbly as I was before. I think the combination of just seeing more systems that will inevitably get abandoned, knowing that I get to have little parties with the Venthyr while the denizens of Azeroth are being slaughtered by the undead, Sylvanas in general, and that we’re looking at two years or so of this expansion hit a nerve or something.

Anyway, sorry about being negative and all RAWR and such. I usually try to maintain a positive attitude, but as I mention, it can be really trying sometimes. At the very least, I have the forums and megathreads here to post stuff more fun to talk about.

Speaking of which, I still plan to help keep an eye out for anything San’layn related in Shadowlands to report any sightings, for better or worse. I also do think it’s important to continue onward with discussions and ideas, even if the going can get tough, and with any luck, they will take feedback in customization options as was mentioned.

Also, my summer class is almost over, so hopefully that’ll give me time to do some stuff I’ve been meaning to do for a few megathreads. Almost in the home stretch! \ ^ o ^ /

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It’s alright, I’ve been negative too though people have brought up very good points–that we should indeed wait to see and hope that Blizzard is looking at our feedback. That’s all we can do. I do hope they look at this thread from time to time.

I didn’t react to the voicelines of Kael yet, but yeah they do sound interesting and I enjoyed them! I will admit, more and more I’m hoping he has a connection with the San’layn. Valanar does say: “Naxxanar was MERELY A SETBACK!” and so, putting them together as a theme would lead to a perfect setback joke :stuck_out_tongue: And, of course, Kael looks like he’d fit right in, and if he gets a mortal body again, one of a San’layn would work very well.

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The new book is coming out soon on audiobook. So Ill give it a listen and see if there is any San’layn stuff. I highly doubt it but I’m excited to hear any new lore tidbits.

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I believe Blizzplanet hinted on twitter that there might be some things like the NPCs that hinted at new Cataclysm Classes in the book.

Though It might be hinting more toward Dark Rangers given the context, but I don’t think San’layn are out of the question given the War Campaign.

Here’s hoping.

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True! And it’s great for our dark ranger buddies anyway. I think it’s been drilled to the ground to Blizzard that Dark Rangers = / = San’layn anyway, so they’re hopefully well aware and are paying attention to our ideas. It’ll be a step in the right direction for those that want San’layn too as the undead elves will be on their mind.

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If they can add Sand Trolls AND Dark Trolls to Darkspear they can do 2 flavors of Undead Elves.

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Indeed, since Blizzard has stated they plan two expansions ahead of the current one, so it could take awhile for some ideas to come to fruition. Still, I take the stance of now being a great time to reintroduce San’layn in the story and make them a Horde allied race. I also consider that maybe not seeing them at all in Shadowlands would be better than seeing them just blindly supporting Sylvanas as her minions, as they can have better writing and such in their reintroduction as opposed to being a throwaway monster loot pinata for us to mindlessly kill.

I do also hope they look at the different race megathreads because there are all kinds of great discussions and ideas being shared. As I’ve said before, the new character creation screen is exciting because there is room for several new races, and I’d love to see them gradually filled with races people have been asking for that would get some love in terms of story development and such by becoming playable races. I really want to believe it was designed that way from all the feedback of races people wanted when they announced allied races would be a thing.

I’ve said this before, but I know I’ll continue supporting the races I want, and I hope others continue to do so for their wanted races. :japanese_ogre: :crocodile: :bat:

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