Same faction bgs. Why will alliance quit?

Lots of things happened, but they lost the paladin advantage and one of the most popular races went to the horde. Horde is the dominant faction on Wrath servers, despite EMFH. Time and again people on this forum say that the only incentive to play as alliance is for fast que times. If that’s the only incentive, is it any wonder that it’s like this?

My dude, if I wasn’t already invested in my guild from classic I’d be horde too. I’m also staying alliance because EMFH is absolutely busted in wrath. I just hope what happened to retail doesn’t happen to TBCC before WoTLK comes out.

On retail ALLIANCE have stronger racials in PvP, but the community was already fully horde for years. Once the entire community goes to one faction there’s no going back

Like, you can’t call alliance babies when every PvPer is already on horde. You’re trying to insult a non-existent population

Do what I did. Get guilds on either side with different raid nights. My Alliance is Monday Wednesday, Horde is Tuesday Thursday.

I am exposed to the massive difference in player mindset between Horde and Alliance every. Single. Day. It’s so blatant, so massive, so obvious that it CANNOT BE DENIED once you see it.

I’m trying to agree with you. But you need to understand why it’s like that.

If you’re into PvP, you’re horde. That’s it. Because there’s a significantly larger PvP player base the odds of getting strong PvPers in a BG is significantly less when you’re so diluted with PvErs dipping their toes into it rather then those who are much more experienced or otherwise invested into that aspect of the game.

Yes, there’s still some strong PvPers on alliance, but you can look at average population numbers https://ironforge.pro/population/tbc/?locale=US&realm=PvP and see exactly what’s going on.

While the ratio is even if you include PvE servers, odds are if you’re invested in PvP you’re on a PvP server. It’s just a significantly smaller pool of skill to call from compared to the vast ocean of horde.

As on retail, and how current PvP server ratios are going, once a faction gets a significant majority it makes little sense to play on the less popular side.

Even disregarding racials, when you have such a large group of players to pull from it’s just a simple choice on what faction to play. if you’re interested in the competitive aspect of it. Nobody wants to be the dead faction. Yeah some will still play alliance, but they’ll be very casual (or stubborn) and not very interested in PvP.

There isn’t a ‘why’ that’s tied to the game at all. It’s unironically been that way since the first Premade AV Addon got busted back in early Classic. Outside AV it was like that from day one. That’s why you have servers like Heartseeker, a playerbase chasing advantages that the other faction has no realistic way of overcoming with any consistency.

Everyone’s always at fault but them. Everything’s against them. They’re supposed to be guaranteed free easy wins and gear to the detriment of anyone that didn’t pick their faction. They want punitive, draconian measures taken against the other faction purely for their own satisfaction. The slightest bit of inconvenience causes them to throw up their hands and threaten to take their ball and go home.

These things cannot be denied by anyone that’s seen both sides of the coin. They aren’t to be disputed. They’re cold, hard, easily observable FACT. And it has nothing to do with anything within the game itself. It’s the players. It always has been.

Yeah. Exactly.

I would like to point out horde had a 99% win rate for like, 16 months or something insane.

Blizzard never took action against it. The map was absolutely broken but it was original so it never changed. Even the changes in TBC still leave major imbalances, but not enough to cause the 1% win rate scenario.

They broke premades because it was causing games to start with ~10 people (Alliance premades would drop Q if they didn’t get enough people in the same BG, causing backfills)

That’s literally the only issue with alliance “premading” AV. Backfills. If horde had a 99% win rate for 16 months, allowing alliance to achieve to same thing would only be fair. (Not that alliance would ever get anywhere near that. 70% at best, maybe)

So basically, the player base is all the edgy teens from the mid 2000s who though it would be cool asf to be a zombie or orc? That actually kind of makes sense. Maybe the faction ratios switched so much cause it was the older people who came from older games (or even DnD) who preferred the “pretty” races that started to leave around Cata only to get replaced by more younger players.

It’s a social thing. People want a larger pool of players to group with. So you go where people go, and one faction is going to get picked.

EMFH is absolutely broken though. I can’t wait to see peoples reaction to double ICC heroic trinkets

Well, that would explain it if it never changed, but it did change. Why did it change?

I don’t know lol. I doubt a sweeping generalization like that is accurate, but blood elf is probably the “prettiest” race, so you probably lost some alliance players to them. I’d assume that lots of new players during that time would choose them as well.

This also makes sense. Apparently in retail 50% of the Horde is Blood Elves. One thing is for certain, Horde has been dominant so long most players don’t even remember a time when that wasn’t the case. But Classic is different. Here, you have a lot of players who haven’t really been in the WoW bubble since Cata. This would have been the perfect chance to fix this. Especially since they’re #somechanges now.

I played in vanilla and tbc with a few stops along the way in other expansions, but I didn’t really start playing seriously again until BFA. I was shocked to learn that horde was so dominant.

If you were a new player trying to decide whether to roll horde or alliance, pretty much everyone would have said to play horde. Every guide on the internet would have said how much better horde are at everything. Everyone on the forums would have said how much better the horde are.

People also said horde would have longer queue times, but it wasn’t actually clear what the queue times would be. Factions were nearly 50/50 at the end of Classic. If TBC had stayed at the pre-TBC 45:55 ratio, horde should have 5-10 minute queues.

In the early months of classic BG’s, horde would often have 1-2 hour queues. But queue times dropped dramatically as horde quit or rerolled alliance. I know several people who rerolled alliance for shorter queues. I know new players who chose alliance for shorter queues.

Let’s pretend we could go back to Classic, back to phase 2, and Blizzard announced that when BG’s were launched there would be same-faction queues. Would that have had any effect on faction balance?

Your supposition seems to be that it wouldn’t have changed anything. But is that what you actually believe?

It isn’t about ‘only the queue times’, it is amazing we have to explain it to you

Horde has a lot of streamers

Sodapoppin (whose twitch chat makes Asmon’s look like dad gamers)
Xaryu
Venruki
Cdew
mes
Snutz
Stoopz
Supatease
Chanimal
Pikaboo
Payo
Whaaz
Savix

Some of the biggest alliance streamers are moving to another game while most horde streamers are sticking with WoW. Wonder why that is?

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And they’d be right in giving that advice, but that has nothing to do with streamers.

Correct. BG que times are not the deciding factor in faction choice. If it were, we’d have seen rerolling on a massive scale within the first month. Horde is just better at everything…in reality and according to community perception. Alliance is a tough sell if you want to do competitive content.

It isn’t that queues times aren’t the deciding factor, but that people are resistant to change. I have two level 70’s, a level 67, two level 63’s, and a level 61. I’ve been playing since launch, and three of my characters have full T3. I would sooner quit the game than start all over on a different faction.

Not many players are willing to basically delete all their toons and start all over again. Far more would pay for a faction change, and far more than that would faction change if it was free. Etc.

I’m not sure what you’re basing that on. Faction change exists in retail and yet most players are horde. As long as one side has the lion’s share of skilled players and long as that side has more options for pug groups and guilds, this is the way that it is.

Retail has same-faction BG’s.

The question is, do long queue times for one faction and not the other have an effect on faction-balance?

Your claim is that it makes no difference at all. That people will sit in 1-hour, 2-hour, 10-hour queues, because queue times aren’t even a consideration.

Nah.

We hate that Horde are playing WoW on easy mode and Blizzard has been making continuous changes to the game and lore everytime Horde decide to go on forum triades.

Your whole issue is feeling entitled to changes and fixes based on problems you not only knew existed long before they were going to happen, but seem to think you’re somehow victims in all of this.

Your mindset is based on your factions lack of accountability that likes to cry 24/7 for PvP changes on this forum and then act like your dumb and don’t remember any of them.

Stop pretending your some hardcore pvp faction when all you die is complain until things are nerfed in your favor.

I wrote this out of spite by the way.

Remove factions if garbage one-sided faction development is happening.

Trying to throw Alliance a “care package” to mask what these changes are really about.

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