If it’s a brick wall, just stick to heroic.
(It’s not even close to a brick wall)
The point was addressed. Many people are doing +2 and higher at 483-485. If you are unable to, then continue to grind gear or get better at understanding how to make the dungeon easier for yourself. Sorry, but this is a non-issue.
It’s not gone. As I said, and was explained by Blizzard, M0 - +2 is the equivalent of what was considered 10-11 in the prior season. But people really need to stop looking at the keystone number and drawing a comparison. It does not, and should not, change anything. Once you get into +2s, you can farm +2s to get adequately geared and move to +3, so on and so forth. This is certainly not a new phenomenon.
Mythics are fine.
I mean I took my warrior into a 0 AA (cleared, two wipes, 3 deaths for me though) at 459 and got the axe from the tree to prove it, I’m just saying I think the curve needs to be better for people, and I think there are reasonable ways to make it a bit better without too much friction on either side.
I don’t have a habit of saying “I completed X, therefore X is easy” though. I actually reflect on the effort it took to do it.
Brick wall is an exaggeration.
Heroic loot should get you to 485+ loot though on average after upgrades, no?
Then you cushion with Cache loot from Awakened world events and LFR (which is basically playing with bots, you just do your role and don’t die).
M0 is definitely harder than what it was after the squish, but a brickwall, nah. It is a definite a “check” for all roles.
Remember that 0s now are like old 10s; while they are faceroll for some people, for many they aren’t.
Also, before this it was hardly… “smooth”. You could entirely skip normal and heroic dungeons and do just fine in old zeros because they barely posed a challenge — at least that is my humble opinion.
This is it for me. It isn’t so much M0 was too hard but that Heroics are so easy I can nearly sleep through them and them M0’s hit like a brick and it was a struggle. I started a new character last week with friends(came back after over a year away) and we were doing Heroics at level 50 in time walking. Heroics should prep players better for higher level content imo.
We’re doing M+4 keys now and it’s for the most part no problem but the first few days in M0 was ROUGH
No, because mythic 0 is a breeze?
Casual is very subjective, lots of good players are casual players and do mythic +
It’s more the people who don’t do mythic + complaining about the content they don’t do
Its quite literally how I have geared up 3 toons that were not exactly geared when the season started. I just made my own group, and while the results can be seemingly random (for example I +1d a 2 +3d a 3 failed a 6 and +3d a 5 on my hunter this week) you will end up with a group and for the low keys probably do pretty well. Certainly reach 490 which is enough to do normal and add a few more pieces in which you can upgrade pretty well with drakes and suddenly you are able to do the 8s and reach 500 item level and do heroic.
If you think you’re responding to the length of time you’re farming gear with the answer of “continue to grind gear”, you are very mistaken.
So where does a player that capped out at a +7 last season get the same relative difficulty this season?
in mythic 0
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Someone who capped at +7 doesn’t belong in keys, they barely belong in LFR.
That means they got HARD carried in the past, by fresh 70s who knew what they were doing but had no gear yet.
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Thats a point we’ve made over and over in threads. Not to say that its OKAY how it is but that people are trying to run M0 in 476 1/8 heroic gear without enchants and without consumables and expecting to LUL FACEROLL. That ain’t how it works.
Pretty sure the Adventure gear upgrades to 489 if you fully max it out. You can do all that with only flightstones which is super easy to get.
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Heroic dungeon vault slots are also 489 and drake crests can easily be bought with vault coins to perform upgrades. The path is there.
M0 this season is equivalent to M+10 last season. That’s not the same relative difficulty.
That is just not a true statement. There was a path for a group of players to work from M0 all the way up to M+7 without any of them being carried, both in terms of skill, knowledge, and gear.
Why do you get to decide who belongs in keys? Especially people that you at least portray are folks you won’t even interact with in the first place?
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Listen, I’ll try to put it simply, and politely, as possible. If someone who understands dungeon mechanics and their class, are equipped with ilvl about 483-485 and cannot muster a +2, then there are other issues in play. You do not need more than 2 weeks of world tour M0 to be equipped at that level, even without upgrading any items.
If you are asking me, I would say somewhere between heroic and M0. I would classify them as a borderline m0 player?
The path in which you speak is no longer accessible. The ship left port, adios. You can either play the hand you’re dealt, or don’t play at all. I would say someone who capped out at a +7 put very minimal effort into their toon, or were extremely casual. Almost to the point of the new dungeon scaling being a non-issue. They can get comparatively geared running heroics and potentially m0. You could probably AFK a +7 in seasons past.
Nobody here is deciding who belongs in keys, the new dungeon scaling system is. There will be individuals who play heroic and be okay with it. There will be folks who play m0 and are okay with it. And then there will be folks who play m+ as much/high as they can go and be perfectly okay with it. As was the case in every prior season since m+'s inception.
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Sure, I don’t dispute there can be other issues. These are barriers that did not exist before, and they do now.
So the answer is, it doesn’t exist. A player who found themself capped at +7, regardless of the reason, cannot get back to that difficulty. Their choices are either stay in what was previously an M0 or get good enough/find carries to play M+10.
And as far as I’m concerned, this is worse for the game, especially for bringing more people into M+.
Or someone with physical limitations that make reaching the performance levels required to go above a given level difficult if not impossible. Being able to move up in difficulty level isn’t just knowing mechanics and what utility/defensive options exist for you. This season in particular, every dungeon has at least one boss with a required damage check that will wipe the group if you can’t meet.
The reason why someone is stuck at a given difficulty level doesn’t change the fact that they are stuck at that level. And anyone who was stuck from M0 to M+11, for any reason, now do not have a place to get that relative difficulty back.
For me, it’s not about getting the gear. There are many ways to get gear that exceeds what you had to run M+ or certain raid levels in the past. It’s about the experience. A player that was content to run keys up to +7 once they had the gear for it is simply SOL now.
The difference is that M+ has a specific rule set that creates a unique gameplay experience, not just in WoW, but across MMORPG games in general. And that experience was available to anyone who could reach the level of a M+2 from last season since its inception. Starting with this season, it’s now only available to players that can reach the level of a M+12 from last season. That is a very big new barrier to entry to introduce, especially in the middle of an expansion. Even for the players who are content with the difficulty level of a M0 or M+10 from last season that can play heroic or M0 this season, that is a different experience than M+.
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New players don’t have the past experience of easier M0, so don’t know why they’d be complaining. Only being told by other players how much harder things are now. Essentially, the community is giving new players a bad perception of the game and shaping their opinions in the wrong direction.
Players who have been around for most/all of DF and have done M0 at some point prior to S4 had the opportunities to learn the mechanics. If they failed to take advantage of that and now find themselves in a difficult situation, have nobody to blame but themselves.
The immediate answer to this topic is to increase difficulty of heroics. Smooth out the transition by making the first steps more in line with what follows. Making M0 easier just removes the “brick wall” from H > M0 and places it instead between M0 > M+.
it’s basically the same, last season a 10 was just as easy a 7, if they can’t handle a 0, that’s skill issue
They took away the timer and affixes from +0-+10ish range. Outside of some poorly tuned mechanics they gave an easier entry with these changes that reward more fitting to the effort.