S4 M0 brick wall intentional?

Community General Discussion
422
  • Heroic dungeons reset daily.
    • This lockout does not affect you when queuing for random Heroic dungeons in the Group Finder. It only prevents you from queueing for specific dungeons you’ve already completed.

https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/269958#:~:text=Heroic%20dungeons%20reset%20daily.,dungeons%20you’ve%20already%20completed.

Its been like this forever since they introduced heroics. You can only get loot once. I’m not sure if you can enter the instance a 2nd time like raids and just not get loot, they added that feature later. But you certainly only get rewards once except in randoms.

Not being able to farm BIS in heroics was the excuse for why they had the random que.

423

Its so bizarre that so many of you have this weirdo-grindset-homework-mindset for a video game.

How about all u people apply this mindset to your REAL LIVES instead of the Mario Kart of competitive video games.

Like, who cares about becoming better roflmao? Given S3 was a massive success whilst being a joke, clearly not the WoW playerbase.

424

It’s weird you think many don’t.

S4 will go down as easier than S3

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425

It stems from people who play a video game as an everyday waste of time versus those people who play it as a hobbyist.

It’s like the people who spends hours and hours and hours building and collecting super expensive lego sets or building ships in bottles.

You can do something halfway and casually or you can respect the time you spend doing something regardless of how much time you spend doing it.

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426

If you don’t plan on ever getting any better, why should I waste my time on you?

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427

Did a few +10s on my hunter. I would say the people in the group are better and it makes the run better. People know when to use Def CD, knows the dungeon mechanics and knows where to stand/group together or get out of avoidable damage and use interrupt. M0 there is little to no interrupt, people dying to mechanics etc etc.

I almost got KSH on my hunter and even though I did a bundh of +10 some are untime but we still got the score since is so close to the timer. I been going back to m0 and low level m+ to get use to the dungeons and yea most people die to mechanics or they could avoid a death if people use personal Def. HoI seems to kill the most people. The group I did it with on the 2nd 3rd and last boss in the end only me and the tank was alive most group member died within 20sec of the fight it seems. AA is another killer same with AZ last boss

428

I’ll address it. There is still smooth progression. Heroics are what m0’s used to be (a joke), and +2 is very much approachable at the gear level heroics now give you. This is due to the increased rewards from 0’s. It’s even easier because 0’s now award crests. It’s a skill issue. Nothing about m0s or low keys are hard. If anything they’re easier now because it’s easier to farm out gear from 0s and rewards from Heroics are better.

429

Wrong

Waste time?

You are playing a video game and posting about it with 10k posts on a forum. No offense, but ur time is clearly not precious to you.

430

Been removed for current dungeons years ago. Didn’t make sense for m+ to not trigger one yet heroics do?

Then again, that might have changed back I guess, I can’t confirm 100% since I ain’t home but as I said, leaving after killing first boss of heroic azure vault didn’t trigger one.

431

Its trending that way so far. The initial jump to current 2s is just catching some off guard.

KSM easier than season 3.

You can get max vault rewards and ksm without ever seeing the last affix

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432

There is a smooth progression. You are now expected to actually upgrade the gear you got from heroic dungeon and OW and LFR content and then do M0 and upgrade those gear. Gone are the days when you can skip upgrading your gear till it was a hero track. Now champion and even Veteran you have to upgrade to.

433

The people who are complaining about the change were not doing KSM so they don’t give a crap about if it’s easier now than it was. The whole source of frustration from players that I’m seeing across multiple discussions is from players who NEVER did stuff higher than 10s or 12s before.

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434

I haven’t seen anyone even attempt to answer why we needed to remove keys 2 - 11 (and shift 10 to untimed) in order to provide a single non-faceroll untimed difficulty at a previous +10 scaling.

Ok, I will try to answer this as someone who is a super casual, who is the target audience you are advocating for, and who benefited from those 2 -10s S3 Keys.

Short Answer: It stops wasting everyone’s time getting to their personal Point-Of-Failure.

Long Answer:
I joined S3 M+ very late into the season. We’re talking like a month until S4 kicked in. I didn’t bother signing up to M+ since I kept getting nervous every time I tried to do it… thanks to the unrelenting fear-mongering on these forums about nightmare healing on M+.

I started on M+2, ran my first dungeon, 0 deaths, ranked the key up three levels. That M+2 was less stressful than any leveling dungeon or heroic. No chaos from bad tanks over pulling, DPS standing in too much bad, interrupts happening, CC. Good stuff.

I got up to +5. Almost every run had 0 deaths and it wasn’t bad nor stressful.

I started to think, “Where was my personal skill ceiling? I should have hit a wall at some point. This is the fabled M+ that causes such a divide on these forums. The absolute horror stories from low keys. Had to be soon. At this +5, surely I will hit that wall!” Never came. That +5 was just as relaxing as a +2.

After that, I stopped due to personal matters. I didn’t get to play much.

If you look at my Raider Io, you should see a pattern of me keeping the key levels close for a good number of dungeons then me trying a higher key. If I played and didn’t stop, I would have grouped a bunch of +5s then moved up to a +6 higher. Rinse and repeat until S4 kicked in.

The question is: how long would it take for me to hit my Point-of-Failure? Every player has a Point-of Failure, or a limit on their current skill and gear. Based on my play-style: would it be weeks, a month? How much time would I be OK with spending finding the Point? I know I could have just tried rushed up the ladder, though I don’t play that way.

The shift in difficulties for S4 streamlines the process. As of right now, Heroics are as hard as S3 M0. Which I find funny since these heroics I am using to gear up with are more stressful than S3 +2. Then again, that is DF content and RNG is RNG when it comes to party makeup.

If I choose to do M0, I will get a chance to see if I experience what could have been a Point-of-Failure for me back in S3. I say “choose to do M0” since I am going utilize my healer privileges and go into M+2 first before doing a M0.

If I hit that wall in S4 M+2 or whatever, then I will save what could have been weeks of time if S4 kept the way S3 did keys.

That’s why for the shift. It is to save time finding one’s Point-of-Failure. I honestly like the shift and appreciate they made it this way.

Yes, you and those players who enjoyed being below 10s, which included me at the time, lost that generous scaling. It is all now clumped into M0. That is a tradeoff to ensure the spirit of the Mythic Dungeon system is kept.

The spirit of the Mythic Dungeon system was not to hang out in those key ranges: it was to improve yourself and move up until you hit your personal Point-of-Failure. Blizzard streamlined that process. It was needed. I should have not had a less stressful experience in a +2 than in a heroic dungeon. Mechanics should have mattered. My skills and knowledge should have been tested at a +2. They were not in S3.

I look forward to seeing what my Point-of-Failure is. I am sure others feel the same way as well. Now it won’t take weeks to get to that point.

435

Could do that in S3 couldn’t we? Maybe not the vault reward part but couldn’t you get ksm with 13s across the board?

436

I apply this mindset to everything I do. I want to succeed in my career goals, in my relationship, in my friendships, in my hobbies, in my health outcomes.

You don’t have to settle for mediocrity in some areas to achieve success in others.

2 Likes
437

People who know how to play don’t want to group with people like you. You and People like you belong in heroic now.

Same with pvp and rated pvp. If you don’t belong you don’t belong.

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438

We’ll have to agree to strongly disagree. I don’t see the spirit of the system at all as being a race to find the point of failure for an individual. It’s an scaling difficulty that theoretically scales forever with no maximum. So taking out the entry makes no sense whatsoever to me. You can skip difficulties, you can push yourself harder but, expecting every player to push themselves to the same just isn’t consistent with what Blizzard has done over the last 20 years.

This change would be like taking out normal raids and leaving LFR (heroic dungeons) and asking players to jump straight into Heroic raids (M0).

439

I have to say I actually agree with you on something sorta.

I don’t think your average gamer wants to group with you Babybilly either. You and people like you don’t belong in World of Warcraft with an attitude like that.

440

They didn’t take out the entry point though, it’s still there. It’s called M0. The fact of the matter is, regardless of it being S4, or S3 tuning, some people will always find the entry point too difficult for them.

What’s happened now in S4 is that a lot more people are finding out that the new entry point is in-fact too hard for them. This is completely fine, because a player who is struggling at M0 can do what people have for the last 20 years of WoW’s existence: Accept the fact that their skill level is where it is and certain content is too hard for them to complete, or they can get better and push higher.

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441

I’ll have to test this but if this is the case. Then I’ve been operating since returning under the pretense I couldn’t do that. I don’t need to as I made the transition to 0 then +2 just fine eventually but, I know some folks who still haven’t and will use that knowledge to help them.

Now it knowing that it REALLY makes no sense to have 0s loot locked. Solving that problem is what they need to figure out. There needs to be a way to run 0s over and over in an environment without the pressure of the clock, where you can learn mechanics through repetition and get rewarded for doing it.

I’m convinced that if 0s didn’t have lockouts and players could run the same dungeons to learn them till they were comfortable and got some progression that would be fine. I wonder if they could keep the loot lockout but boost the drake crest drops instead since you only have 0s to get drakes in 5 man dungeons. So you get your loot but your running subsequent kills for upgrades if you want.

1 Like