S4 is waiting gap between expansions. DF ended when S3 ended.
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Yeah the big problem is that drake crests are on a weekly cap that’s more than you can get from m0s.
every single time i see someone crying about m0 difficulty its someone in 400 IL gear trying to jump immediately into M+'s
do normal dungeons → heroic dungeons → m0’s and then m+ once your gear is completely updated to each dungeon difficulty tier
Pug normal. 
Yeah I’m told hard mode last boss is equal to m29 lol
And yet players are ghostlighting us right here in the forum, trying to convince us that the reason they did this was because of overwhelming demand for these specific changes on the part of the playerbase.
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Can people who are wildly out of touch with reality please stop saying this. It’s objectively false. Heroics teach you nothing because they’re fall over queue content. It’s clear the people saying this haven’t been in a heroic in literal years.
I’m on board with the whole “learn the mechanics and you won’t have much of a problem” camp but heroics are NOT the place to do that.
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There is definitely a difficulty spike, as there should be; rewards are going up two whole gear tiers compared to heroic dungeons - from Adventurer straight to Champion. But to call it a wall is disingenuous.
M0 difficulty is now intended to be on par with a Normal raid, but for 5-man content rather than 10-30. The design goal was for all M0s to match the dungeon crawling megadungeon experience like Karazhan or Mechagon on the week they are introduced.
You can 100% walk into a M0 with ilvl ~470 world event + LFR gear and do great. Pull one pack at a time. Do the mechanics. Do the interrupts. Do not stand in the bad. In the end, it makes M0s much better end game content for those players who do not raid and do not M+ and just want the small group, non-timed, more old school dungeon crawling experience.
I did but that still doesn’t change that you could farm crests before and can’t now. They should get rid of the m0 lockouts in this structure. Doing this in s4 is a beta test for next expac, so that’s exactly the info they need.
Sounds like you haven’t done an s4 heroic since they buffed them to be equal to the old m0 then.
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Yeah it’s been proposed. But I don’t think they would ever let you farm the same dungeon without restriction.
I’ve done plenty of them and they all fell over like they were nothing. It’s queue content, it can’t be failed.
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TBF you can do exactly that with M+ and a small hoop to jump through
People should actually play heroics before suggesting this as if it’s actually a possibility. You don’t learn anything relevant to m0 by running heroics.
There’s a couple of ways they could make it better without “letting you farm the same dungeon without restriction” for example:
Daily lockouts instead of weekly.
No lockouts but change M0 loot structure to be the same as M+, IE only receiving a few drops and only at the end of dungeons.
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at the same time m0 isn’t crazy difficult either.
It used to be so easy that you didn’t learn anything there either, now that you actually need to pay attention to most mechanics instead of skip them people think its the hardest thing ever
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Ok, that’s groovy, but that still means “learning boss fights in heroic” is useless advice.
true, but its not like they can make heroic any harder, i can imagine the uproar if you actually wipe ever in that…
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I’d certainly live with it if they made heroic a bit harder. I don’t personally think M0 needs to come down in difficulty either. Just feels like they took out a certain playground to get beyond your training wheel phase or to just enjoy if you don’t want to go further. M0 with weekly lockouts simply does not serve that function at all.
tbf, it never did, it was too easy before this to fill that
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I wiped once in heroic. Uldaman where the guy decided to pull waaaaay too much on a caster heavy group.
We kicked the tank.
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