The smoothness is near flawless if you interrupt, do mechanics, not stand in bad etc, in other words its a skill issue. If you wold like link your main (instead of posting on a low level alt) and we can look into what your issue is and help you improve.
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Yes it was their intention. These arent the same dungeons you are used to. M0 are equivepant to a +10 and heroics equivelant to M0. If you are struggling then you need to go back to heroic and learn the fights better. If you don’t interrupt and stand in stuff that will kill you, you are gonna struggle hard. I tell everyone i run with that if you interrupt and move out of stuff instead of trying to get that cast off, they alend up being drastically easier.
I love how people are crying about mythic 0s not being accessible i dont think I’ve done a single 0 outside helping someone else, this is the easiest gearing ive seen since i came back to wow. Do world content on an alt, then lfr, spend bullion, boom right into+2s.
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My guild and I start off doing 0s and working our way up each season. Generally our best time is in the beginning, 0-10s. We can casually play and catch up/talk at the same time. We usually start to have trouble at around +12-14 until we outgear it and then usually get KSM towards the end of the season, playing once a week if that.
As for S4, currently everyone in my guild quit because we can’t finish a M0 and no one feels like dealing with it. We tried to farm heroics but they are boringly easy and we did about 2 before never logging back in. So we just gonna wait for the war within. Maybe there will be another step between heroics and M0 or something to smooth that experience out.
Tldr: going straight to M0=m10 ruined the best part of the new season for us and casual gear progression we were used to.
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Several people have explained why heroic dungeon being part of the process is a good thing. You are hung up on what dungeon’s difficulty is named instead of addressing the substance of said dungeons you are discrediting. It sounds like the heroic dungeon difficulty answers all of your current problems.
I don’t care about the name one iota. Call it Dandy’s Fun Land if we want.
Everyone wants to focus on how easy it will be to get gear from heroic. And while that is valuable in certain ways, that value will quickly diminish. That is why I am discrediting the arguments people are making for why it’s a good thing, not because of its name and the history that name has carried historically.
Yes, heroic being relevant again is fine for new or returning characters. But for the players that actually need significant amounts of gear from heroic in order to succeed M0 are going to be farming it well beyond when it is a challenge for them. Heroic is scaled 85% below M0. Players who are good enough to not need to farm much out of heroic won’t so the gear isn’t going to be relevant for them. For the players that do need gear to succeed in M0, many are going to reach the point that heroic is dull before they have enough gear to bridge that gap between it and M0. Gearing will become a chore at that point rather than the outcome of a fun activity they’re already doing.
Additionally, the rule set of heroic comes into play for players who want to learn mechanics in preparation for making it to M+. Because M0 has a weekly gear lockout, heroic is the next most difficult option for these players to learn. But with a scaling so low and missing mechanics compared to any mythic difficulty, players that are successful in M0 aren’t going to be learning much either. Players will realistically have to run M0 for any kind of learning, and that will mean either runs without any chance of gear or waiting a week in between each dungeon run, which is terrible for the repetition most people need to pick up new skills.
So no, I truly could not care less that it’s called heroic. It’s that Blizzard made it the most difficult option before M+ that can be run repeatedly for rewards, but still too far below M0 difficulty to really serve the purpose it would need to serve.
So no, I truly could not care less that it’s called heroic. It’s that Blizzard made it the most difficult option before M+ that can be run repeatedly for rewards, but still too far below M0 difficulty to really serve the purpose it would need to serve.
Learn from failure.
+2 isn’t that much different from M0.
I enjoy looking at the armory/raiderio of people saying it’s not a brick wall and seeing they cleared +15s/Heroic raid last tier.
Gee, I wonder why it wasn’t a wall to you.
Yes.
People were asking for relevant m+ gear with no timers. Over the years, thread after thread… “Remove the timers” This gives you relevant M+ gear with no timers.
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It’s only a brick wall for bad players, which I’m starting to think is a good thing. Bad players don’t belong in difficult content, they just waste other players’ time.
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Almost like, they kind of care about the game and thus can accomplish those.
People who don’t care, have heroics. (former mythic dungeons.)
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The answer you’re looking for and what everyone is beating around the bush about:
They’re purposely making the game grindy. That’s why. Plain and simple. So yes, it is 100% intentional.
A billion gas lighters will come in and say it’s the best and easiest gearing ever, but it’s still grindy. Best, easiest and grind are all mutually exclusive words.
It’s fine to have a grindy Season 1, but the last season being grindy is dumb af.
Almost like they have m0 equivalent gear from last season.
Logic ain’t hard, you know.
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They made it less grindy. Don’t even have to do keys for score anymore, and just got to +12s.
I’m personally really happy with the progression pace this season.
I started the week at about 451 ilvl and couldn’t queue for LFR. So I ran about 10 heroics which got me handily geared for LFR. Ran that, got two drops, Was in the low 470s after heroics+LFR.
Ran 4 m0s, with group members also in the 470-480 range, had plenty of deaths and a few party wipes but not too much raging or drama. Another 3-4 drops from m0s.
Got lucky with a world boss drop, got into a Normal Aberrus for the last six bosses, got a helm from that run, finally had two pieces of 486 armor made with whelpling crests.
Ended tonight at 484. Still wearing several Heroic blues and one piece of s3 LFR gear. Plenty of room to improve and I am looking forward to a heck of a full vault, after which I’ll spend the bullion I picked up and probably replace that s3 LFR trinket. I also have a spark I could turn into a piece of 502 crafted.
If I get super lucky and have tier hands or chest in the vault I’ll even be able to make a 4-piece.
33 ilvl jump in a week is pretty bonkers. Some of it was dumb luck (world boss drop) but I also could have made several more pieces of 486 gear with whelpling crests and I’d be flirting with 490 now.
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I’m sure they’d like to keep it as smooth as possible, this is just something they’re trying out.
There’s never really been a smooth difficulty transition though, just dungeons where you can’t fail and dungeons where you can, everyone will hit that binary distinction at some level. Normals and heroics are designed to be unfailable and can’t teach you anything, m0 this season seems to be a great environment to learn and prepare for mythic+ in a low pressure setting where you can make mistakes but there is no true fail state.
Previously that learning space was something like 2-15 keys but crucially in that setting it was actually rude and inconsiderate to hold your group back because it’s timed and people want their keys to go up.
There needs to be an entry level difficulty that can actually punish your mistakes without being so punishing for your group - a safe place to learn, but it’s pretty understandable that suddenly being punished for things you might not even have known were mistakes could feel jarring.
It’s a shame that the difficulties ended up how they are, and I agree it’ll be a bad experience for a lot of people trying to learn, wow does a horrible job in general of teaching players, but keep in mind that there is absolutely no need to do m0s or m+, it’s just a way to play the game some people choose for fun, if you are too challenged and you don’t enjoy the challenge then there’s no reason for you to do it - otherwise, embrace the learning experience.
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Probably the only measured response in this entire thread.
Well done.
Did I say anything about M0 > +2? There will be people who get bored of heroic after it has become trivial but before they have the gear to make up any skill gap for M0. The jump between heroic and M0 is simply too large with there being nothing in between. How easy it is to get that gear relative to the difficult of M0 will be a detriment.
The more I’ve thought about it during these posts, the more I’m questioning whether this is even true. Yes, players who want untimed content now have access to far better gear than in the past. But the same gap between heroic and M0 is still going to create the no-man’s-land where heroic becomes unengaging before some players are ready for M0.
And then even those they stick with it long enough will have a cap at M0. While M0 is significantly harder, as so many people keep telling me, M0 is faceroll easy with gear. Whether that’s true or not, it is still at the bottom of the dungeon difficulty scale. How long will it take most players who want challenging untimed dungeon content to reach the end? Once they do, their only options become move up into timed content or call it a day on that toon for the season.
To be clear, it is a good thing that these players have something they can enjoy. That’s more than what they had before the change. It’s just with so many of the supposed positives also having so many associated negatives, and then there are additional negatives without a positive. I feel like players who wanted no timers wanted a mode that would grow with them all season. While what they got is better than what they had, what they got has a pretty low ceiling for a 6 month season.
And there’s also nowhere for players to learn to become good players. What do you think will happen to the good player base if there are limited paths for the next crop of players to improve?
I really am not sure how anyone can truly think this. As a game mode system, M+ has the smoothest progression curve of any game I can think of. With each subsequent difficulty being so close to the last, players aren’t going to go from trivial to nigh impossible in one jump. It’s unlikely most players will be completely comfortable in level X and feel completely ill equipped to have a chance at X+1. It’s a lot more motivating when you can think “if I just hit this ability a second sooner I would’ve lived” than when a mechanic you didn’t need to care about at all (or maybe didn’t even exist) just one shots you.
M+ does still have this for those who get there. But the bottom 10 levels were replaced with a jump where tanks can solo the dungeon in 4 pulls boss to boss to a level that even good players would find difficult in scrub gear.
While this is true, it also masks a significant point. For nearly a decade, those low level keys existed for players who wanted to play them. If M+ launched this way and it was always a fairly high level endgame experience just to start, that would be one thing. But any player who enjoyed M+ at levels 2 - 11 going back to possibly 2016 has lost that game mode experience. It’s a big difference to have something added that was always out of reach than to have something for a long time be suddenly moved out of reach.
Hope new players have fun never getting a group lol
“MaKe YoUr OwN KeY!”
Nobody gunna join lol, and if they do you’ll get halfway through a dungeon and everyone will leave.
Garbage mode.
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You can make mistakes as long as you enjoy being cussed out and called a variety of slurs and insults lol
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