Ruining Mythic+ for Tanks - Pushing Us Away

people are idiots.

Tell them once shutit or youre out.

The stupid part is, PUGs are way more successful with small, fast pulls than giant “meta route” pulls.

As you said DPS can’t handle mechanics. You have no idea how good the healer is. The is no “meta” interrupt coordination, if they are interrupting at all.

Giant AOE pulls are only necessary at the highest keys when HP pools are huge. Otherwise ST specs burning down prio-targets marked by the tank work just as well (or better) and meta doesn’t matter.

People are idiots.

3 Likes

Ive not claimed to have done do recently. Still you consider tanking at minimum engaging so this kind of performance is expected

I’m not a tank but I 100% agree.

I could never see me tanking for randoms

1 Like

That is true, a dps coordinating and working with the group, doing good dps and not making too many mistakes is also good. Nevertheless, there’re likely thousands like that. (Myself not included, I’m far from meta right now and I’m feeling that painfully.)

I’m gonna have a moment of vulnerability and say hell nah.

I don’t really care what anyone thinks of what I’m going to say, because in all of the M+ I’ve run, the overwhelming majority of toxicity is from tanks. Tanks that don’t interrupt, barely stun, and make it as hard as possible for me to get cap totems off.

I’m not saying you suck, but I am saying you’re wrong and I’m confident in that. DPS are, by and large, silent. Do I see toxic ones? Sure. There is no absolute rule for toxicity, anyone can be.

The ratio of toxic tanks to toxic DPS I’ve seen is somewhere in the 4:1 neighborhood, seriously. Tanks in WoW get away with murder because WoW’s culture around tanking is awful. So many people seem to think Tank = Lead, which is not necessarily true, but the problem is tanks buy it too.

Anyway, I’ll take my angry replies. There is no changing my mind, in my experience this is pretty set in stone. Tank is a high stress role, it’s easy to blame, and yet despite this I expect the tank to blow up long before a DPS does.

There’s a stark difference between criticism, and constructive criticism. Being acceptive of one is being tolerant of abuse, whilst the other helps the community grow.

Now, one tank to another: Which do you think telling someone to diaf would be categorized as?

1 Like

Long time healer here, 3k+ level player, both in PUGs and push groups: if the stuff you’re describing is happening outside of bosses, that’s usually an indicator that the tank is inexperienced or not fully utilizing their kit

A decent, not even a good tank, but a decent tank will generally be able to carry potato groups pretty hard. For example in the current season, you can basically pull as if you’re drip feeding your potato party and still time most +4s/+5s with a comfortable amount of time to spare. Outside of bosses, there really isn’t much room to allow your potato party to mess up that bad when you’re decent, outside of very specific sections of one or two dungeons

Now, you can’t expect to have success when nobody is kicking, I’ll give you that, but there also isn’t much that needs kicked until you start getting into the +6 or higher range; a decent tank paired with a healer who can just send HPS and dodge frontals can basically carry DPS through most keys if they are at least minimally geared for the content

A good or a strong tank can definitely carry a potato group this season to some performance, though that’s also true of DPS as well as healers. A single high value player in a sea of potatoes can easily make untimed keys into timed keys, at least far enough to be able to farm champion gear and heroic crests.

If you’re going up to heroic gear or myth track GV, however, the barrier of entry is MUCH higher than “I can play my class well”. On the first day, the non-RWF M+ crowd had struggled to time some of the +6/+7 keys in their early runs, and these are players who PLAY play M+. As of this morning, we barely had +10s being cleared by the top end players, even with a solid 615+ ilvl and 4p tier

So part of it might be tailoring your expectations to the range youre playing at. If youre pugging and not vetting properly, you’re going to incur a rough sampling of the general population, which is going to hover right around that +3/+4 mark in terms of gear/skill. If you’re sitting at that range and seeing this outcome, this suggests you’re not doing your job as a tank properly as you have the means to throttle groups to baby proof them and still time keys if you’re actually decent or better. If you’re going higher and timing some and whiffing others, you might be fine, but then you’re at a point where you’re ahead of the general population curve and thus potentially an outlier. In other words, your expectations would be above and beyond reasonable for the general population.

either way, a good or a great player doesn’t even sweat over stuff like this. Why? Because if you’re a strong player and you’re pugging, you’re going to generally be providing a HIGH impact to your keys and that will be reflected in your experiences with others as you play more

And in general, gear is a crutch. M+ is always rougher in S1 of an expac when people, especially tanks, cannot overgear the target content.

Peeking behind the curtain, what I can tell you is that if I’m healing an undergeared and mid tank, I have to spend notably more globals on that tank, which means less for the group, which means less globals for DPS, which means greater TTK, which means more room for misplays. Even if that tank plays well, the tank not fulfilling their role fully often causes the cascading of failure.

The others may fail mechanics, but they’re failing them more often because they’re given more opportunities to fail, and the tank is often the one who sets that series of opportunities up; that’s their role.

If you’re not adjusting to your groups, as your post suggests you’re not actually doing, then you ARE misplaying your role. And you’re placing burden on your healer to carry and cover for your mistakes. And you’re setting your DPS up to fail more often.

Tanking is probably the easiest of the three roles to DO, but definitely requires a thick skin to stick out long enough to learn to DO IT WELL. The reason tanks get criticized so heavily is because the failures start with tanks, and ends with the other roles

i am not sure how to start the reply.

atleast you can form groups… ive had key listed for hour zero tanks have queued. no one else joins key unless tank is present. its quite interesting.

Just read your post in your thread. gg

so if the forums are 1% of the population, and the tank population is 4-8% of the population. Seems pretty sizeable say if 1% of the gd forums say tanking is a crappy experience, it is a fairly large portion of the tank community… given its smaller population size.

That’s not how it works. You have 1% of the 8% here.

Which is. 0.08% of tanks.

Is there an reason why tanks should be more present on forum than other roles?

There are roughly 2m players in us, 2-3m in eu, 5-6m I china. For the us forums that puts the total posting population at 20k. 1% of that is 2k. Based on the overall volume of posts in gd, and the tank spec forums. They are easily more than 2k players complaining about tanking. So yes, the role that requires more knowledge than healers and dps would typically be more involved in discussions related to their role.

You claim to be a mythic raider with an ego to match, but act like an lfr hero no thoughts involved. Do please just stop trolling and go back to dual wielding your credit cards for those weekly runs.

1 Like

Not criticizing but I mean… the tank yesterday in a M+6 NW pulled the entire starting areas worth of mobs at once right down the middle. Like a bowling ball headed into the pins. shrug

There are no tank spec forums.

2 Likes

This is hilarious. You need to walk in a decent route and then stand where you’re supposed to. Thats it. Managing aggro? You generate enough threat to hold aggro by using like ANY ability.

Tanking is the easiest role there is. And paying attention to your healer’s mana seems to be way too much to ask out of them.

What a GIGACHAD

Shaman says tanking is easy LOL sure its easy if you pull one pack at a time, maybe its lower apm but when dps messes up mechanics, they die. When tanks mess up mechanics, everyone dies. If tanking was as easy as you children claim, there wouldnt BE any bad tanks, and everyone would do it. You play dps because youre bad at tanking, its okay to be inept just admit it :slight_smile:

3 Likes

People should be forced to play a tank in follower dungeons before being allowed to play dps or healer. It would teach them mechanics, and how things ACTUALLY work. Kinda like an attunement. Bring those back and a lot of the toxic dps/healers will stop existing.

idk i see both sides as a main tank and i play healer and dps as well. there are a ton of bad tanks, heals and dps out there.

as an example i just tried a m0 grim batol and the blood dk tank did 0 interupts the entire dungeon. would pull when they are at 10% hp and im at 1% mana. i was resto shaman healing. on the boss that powers up and u have to kite, he just stood there getting one shotted multiple times.

the dps werent much better, one dps was doing near the same low dps just slightly above the tank. barely anyone tried to dodge mechanics. was a bad time.

these tanks getting yelled at stories always have another side to them that are conveniently left out.