You’re focusing on games that are 30 years old. lol
We’ve moved past those early days with questionable design decisions. Most developers have enough intelligence to see how baking character power into purely cosmetic systems is nothing but detrimental.
You can have the best of both worlds now a days and there is literally no reason not to have.
If every MMO we can think of meets the criteria of an RPG, then either we are missing some important dimensions of those criteria (such as what makes a good rpg) or the definition isn’t useful as a way to talk about MMOs.
RPG > Min-Max in a single player game.
RPG > Min-Max in an easy game.
RPG > Min-Max in a game where performance doesn’t matters.
Wow is not a single player game.
Wow is not an easy game because whatever your skill level, there are content that can challenge you.
Wow is a game where performance matters.
hence
In WOW, RPG < Min-Max.
Can you play the game without min-max? yes. but min-maxing is part of “git gud” and if you are fine hard stuck at lower difficulties, with crappy groups, spending hours wiping on heroic content, then you don’t need to min-max.
Its more of, there was atleast outlier builds before, now its build right or be treated like a lepper lmao
lol you do realize those games 30 years ago are still alive today because they are superior and had better designers that knew what they were doing the developers this days in all companies are morons that should be replaced
But why not… MMO is short for MMORPG. Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game.
Until you get something like Destiny 2 which has it’s only qualifiers that puts it towards more of an MMOFPS with Rpg elements.
It was once; but again: if they are all RPGs, then whether or not an MMO meets the base criteria to be an RPG isn’t a useful way to talk about MMOs.
It…still does…
You’re being purposefully obtuse.
Then explain how? Because as defined, it isn’t.
You’re full of it. lol
I quite like Balder’s Gate but that doesn’t change the fact that half of the game is a tedious mess designed for a tiny niche of people.
WoW is not designed for a niche of people. These sorts of systems do not appeal to most people because they arbitrarily limit what you can and cannot do with a character.
Why you’re arguing this point at all is beyond me. You can have both meaningful cosmetic and power progression systems without stepping on any toes.
…I already did. Can you be more specific? This is that obtuse thing again.
no its the truth game companys today well look at the immortal thing they aren’t trying to make a good game anymore they are busy tailoring the games for people that in all rights have no RIGHT OR PLACE IN THE GAMING WORLD… at all they aren’t making better games just because they get more people because honestly people today are complete idoits and inferior to the past people …
Half of the people in this games are not gamers and should stay out of the gaming world… completely instend what we get is dumb morons like blizzards devs ruining classic games like warcraft 3 with the reforge or diablo 3 compared to diablo 2 just to get more people not about making a good game… to them they don’t know how to make a decent game this days
That’s some heavy nostalgia glasses there…
Way to ruin your entire argument. Let me tell you this, you old bugger… Humanity has always been plagued by idiocy and probably always will be. That has never changed.
Read some history books if you don’t believe me.
Character progression is part of every RPG. Your characters grows, gains knowledge and strength and abilities and unless you are role playing a complete idiot, what is practical is important. Yes, your adventurer will understand the importance of using skills, gear etc… that maximizes his chance of conquering evil or whatever his goal in life is. In that respect, Min/Maxing isn’t at odds with Role Playing.
However, if your character identifies as a Marksmen Hunter (for example), it would be breaking RP to switch to Beast Mastery just because BM Hunters are better in pve, and a RP player wouldn’t min/max in that way.
there is a difference in idoicy and weak fools that are ruining everything also im not even old half of the decent games are older than I am and i still go back and play them over and over again I’m 28 and i still prefer older things to modern things hell ac/dc is still the best band in the world but they are hella lot than i am… the fact is the older game makers and the older musicans and the older actors are far superior than this weak people today and knew what they were doing probaly because legally they all did L’s’d and other drugs which helped them be more creative
Bruh, Now that’s what I call Yikes Volume 2
If the definition of RPG includes all MMOs, how is the term useful to describe qualities in an MMO?
If all As are B, how is B useful to describe As?
Ok boomer 
you do realize with my age by the terms ppl say id count as a millineral as a 92 kid lol born lol
honestly the dev team should take some damn drugs and return to making things great…