Tip me for swiping, because I bothered training it.
If the group takes on a Rogue, Lockpicking is a Rogue ability that comes with Rogue and costs him or her nothing to use in the instance. If Mage Portals cost nothing per cast, I would say they should do them, for free. Unlike food/water, which pretty much universally agreed, a Mage should do for an instance run…as it has no gold cost per use.
Guys, this topic isn’t about if a rogue should lock pick or not. It’s about notifying the group beforehand.
That’s a strawman argument. Every class has to pay to learn abilities, level up weapon skills and spend money on reagents. IMO, rogue’s LP is closest compared to a mage portals because of the personal investment.
Mages spend money learning portals and casting those portals, for other people’s benefit. Rogue’s spend countless and tedious hours levelling a skill in the same way one would level herbalism or mining.
Sure, it’s a utility that rogues bring and shouldn’t be selfishly withheld from the group, but I think it’s just as selfish for the group to feel entitled towards the rogue’s LP - just as it would be selfish to be entitled to a mage’s portals.
Lockpicking generates income as a Rogue is out there picking lockboxes and chests while soloing.
If a Rogue didn’t level it, “whatever” at best or derelict in developing their class at worst, and that is another conversation. But if they did level it, this is a utility ability with no per cast cost. At that point, this is a Mage refusing to make food/water. This is a Warlock refusing to Summon, make health/soulstones. This is a Druid refusing to MotW. This is a Priest refusing to buff or top off a tank between pulls. Etc.
No one gives a $&@“ if you casuals blacklist them.
It is not a strawman argument and I have explained how it isn’t.
Seems like rogues having a reputation for 15 years is damning us.
The knee jerk blacklist is insane. It’s a chest…
Mage portals generate income. Therefore, they should give them out for free. Also, I think you are greatly exaggerating how much income one earns finding and picking boxes for vendor trash worth a few silvers, when one could be out farming for gold.
Again, strawman argument, refer to my previous post. All classes have to level skills, learn abilities, use reagents and complete class quests. Until you can reasonably argue otherwise, I will continue to hold rogue LP as akin to mage portals - not “learning swipe”. Unless you feel that mages are entitled to give free portals to the group, in which case I would respect your consistency.
Greed brings out the worst in people.
You are not following along, what was discussed was the act of leveling the skill, which, opening lockboxes nets gold and items from the boxes.
Mage portals can be sold, as can picking locks for others.
Difference is, the portal cast costs the Mage something each instance it casts it. The lockpick does not.
Have you ever actually leveled Lockpicking? Greens and blues can found in lockboxes and chests, vendor trash adds up, loose money, potions, and poison reagents are in them as well.
Okay, you clearly do not understand the term. Already explained this to you.
Already did.
Because you are willfully ignorant.
Feel free to read.
I was reading, and was 100% ready to accept a new point of view on the topic. But you have failed to convince me.
Yes, I did level up LP. You are calling me out for not reading, yet you failed to notice where I mentioned that I mained a rogue in vanilla.
You have no ethical framework for your arguments. You justify some actions and condemn others on your personal whims of what is right and wrong, without a care for consistency.
Should make no difference. If you believe that “per cast cost” is all that matters, you ignore the “cost” which goes into learning the skill. Nobody would be stupid enough to say that the warlock epic mount is “free” because there is no per cast cost.
I also give free food to any who needs and a free portal to city of groups choice at the end.
The rogue is not entitled to the chest because it was a group effort getting to it.
However rogues should get tipped for opening it if somebody else wins the roll. It’s not really any different from tipping a rogue in a capital city for opening a box.
Problem is in an instance nobody wants to stop for anything to wait cos it’s always go go go. So too bad for rogues.
but rogues dont take a reagent to unlock the chest they have the lock pick the lock pick dont break…mage portal takes a reagent that we have to keep buying more of. to compare the 2 as if they were the same …is false.
Not sure that’s the same. Mage portals cost reagents, lock picking does not.
Sure if thieves tools had a single use or something you would have a point, but it doesn’t.
The Mage has a cost to provide their service, the rogue does not.
no mage portal cost a reagent per cast
If we gave the out for free they would lose income… a rogue would not lose income for picking a lock box for free.
most people tip mages at least a gold for portals you cant really compare the cost of a mage portal as anything really compared to the tip they usually get
only time I get a tip for portal is out in the world, at the end of a instance I have not been tiped once…I dont ask for it either I just do it…I also expect rogues to unlock chest …if they dont and I am lead of group I find another dps because they are useless to me at that point.
You’re just like the Flat Earthers.
I question if you actually have, given your comments.
Evidently, you lack reading comprehension then.
Yet, you fail to substantiate the “no difference” claim.
Then, by that logic, I would be fine to call for you paying me to swipe. How would this make me a hypocrite?
I have repeatedly maitained that abilities with no monetary per use cost should be expected for the benefit of the party, hence Mage food is expected, a portal is not.
People do talk about how it is cheaper though. Given that Lockpicking, inherently generates income in the process of leveling it however, your comparison sucks.
No, but rogue LP costs a significant time investment during which they lose income. As I have stated several times, this is different from the usual class quests/ weapon skills/ reagants which all classes need to use. This is several hours of doing a tedious chore to access a little bit of extra utility. The “blues and greens” which you can eventually earn from it is akin to suggesting that Enchanting is a good money making profession, considering the lion’s share of your time will be actively losing money through lost income.