yea was strange seeing deathmark get nerfed when garrotes damage mods were the root of the problem. being tryin amp deadly instead of wound so more dmg on deathmark but yea generally have to vanish it to really get that burst
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More like under-nerfed
Locks dont have 100% uptime with a get out f death free card IE vanish.
Rogues got a ridiculous OP tool kit
This is all related to playing assassin rogue:
I’m aware DH received nerfs, mainly to the hunt doing 180-200k down to 150 ish. It’s their passive healing and high sustain that’s way overtuned, warriors are absolutely nuts right now as well. With some of their talent choices all being around a minute with huge damage modifiers attached to them and almost zero counter play.
Neither class burst/damage CDs were changed they got a slap on the wrist to self heals and they are still very strong. Outside of a hard defensive CD like evasion and maybe a disarm you’re left with not much to defend yourself with.
Rogues got both a dmg reduction to CDs and a time nerf. Just doesn’t add up to me how much the talents like Odyns fury (which is starting to do crazy numbers as a bleed) bastion spear The hunt are all low CDs. Bring them in line with the rogue treatment and bump them up a bit. Not heaps just a 30sec to make them think about it more than just another pressure button on top of consistent pressure options.
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Vanish breaks on dots, cloak is a 2 min cd and sometimes doesn’t remove or prevent anything . Warlocks don’t die, our abilities don’t do heavy damage but gimmicks like reprimand do.
19-25k shadowstrikes sucks, eviscerates don’t really pop anything hard, gloomblade and backstab also do poor damage.
Your incinerates “ a filler ability “ truck for 50+k hits.
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Warlocks dont die?
That totally discredits you.
Melee is beyond broken with its 110% uptime
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Can’t vanish stuff in mid air like the old days,so you still die.relax .
Succubus and wwe felguard are more than enough to peel a rogue. Warlocks are a-ok bud.
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I love when another class has a zero counterplay scenario, the devs respond “LOL get gear” and “skill issue”, but for Rogue, it’s a lot of pearl clutching and heavy-handed corrections.
“When Rogue is having fun, nobody else is.”
Yeah, what about DH or Warlock? When they have fun, the other players being lawnmowered laugh it off? Get real.
This.
But, a rogue can also start their opener see your trinket, slip the engage, and reengage when DR timers reset and you have no trinket. They can half engage and save CDs for when you really do have no response (because if you DID sit on them earlier, you’d be dead now). I strongly believe most of the “overpowered” cries fall back to something I’ve tried again and again and again to get addressed and goes ignored.
Stealth is not a Sneak but a pure Invis.
Passive stealth detection needs considerably increased when in the frontal view cone of a player. 20 yds out, if I’m directly in front of you, I should get spotted. And if that means players degenerately spinning their cams like a CSGO match in arena, then let it happen. Shadowstep, Vanish, and Sprint engages give you plenty of opportunity to rely on latency and ignore that anyways – but still, you can barely spot a stealth player when they’re right on top of you.
Nerf free invis and suddenly Rogue is just another class mad at the game. It is the one and possibly only broken mechanic from the game launch that has only been buffed (detection feels smaller today and there are no move speed penalties).
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I know pre-nerf sectec was strong, but… it felt like an actual execute against good players, during crucial burst. Now, as usual, so often it feels like I’m getting things to 10%> hp and they instantly full heal. So frustrating, after all the setup.
Noobs will die to anything when unmitigated, sure it was strong, but damn was the 30% harsh, on TOP of the 3% baseline nerf and Resounding Clarity CP nerf (which made our butter smooth Sub turn janky…).
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So actively promoting degenerative gameplay now are we? Lol get this person a job on the WoW dev team!
As if we need more games with zoomers spinning mouse mechanics. Go back to CSGO if your wrist needs a flick so badly.
Would much rather see FW be brought up as choice node or something versus improved dance.
Return of Sanguinated veins to help w sustain at 20% as a node competing with Dark Shadow.
This would help a lot.
death mark nerf is absolutely going to destroy assa rogues in pvp
100% Another nerf is coming. So many people have FOTM rerolled outlaw for M+
I thought another one was coming after the 3% meme, but I’m not sure now. Outlaw is good but I don’t think it’s in a position where it’s too good now. It’s a high A tier spec and hopefully just low enough on the list to avoid the nerf bat.
I can’t tell if you legit think pure invis is a good idea or if you’re trying to be provocative and funny.
agreed, also Blizz continues this nonsense in 10.0.5 with nerfing outlaw and its ridiculous the way they are going about it. PLEASE BLIZZ DONT NERF THE ROTATION IF YOU WANT TO NERF PLEASE DO AURA NERF AND DONT F UP THE ONLY GOOD PARTS MANY OF YOUR SUBS ENJOY. I find it to be a grand display of how they dont listen or understand the mechs.
This class was mostly left alone in their rotation for ONE reason and ONE reason only, common sense -it is already known to be one of -if not the most difficult class to play well and it has mechs that are far more in depth and require more knowledge to play than most all other classes and so the ppl that actually are playing high mythics and mythic raid are usually good at this class.
–A CLASS THE REQUIRES MORE BEING PUT INTO DOING WELL DESERVES RIGHTLY TO DO MORE DAMAGE IN GENERAL AND YOU KNOW THIS. You need to look at the whole picture and not just whos on top, do some data pulling and look, for the most part even if many are playing rogue they are not the ones on top -it is a select few in comparison to the other classses high on the scales.
PLEASE LISTEN TO THE COMMUNITY OF ROGUES AND NOT THOSE THAT DONT UNDERSTAND that if you have to learn more and put more into a complex class you need more out of it, if you kill us you will just take the fun away for people who seek to become better players. Just let this one class alone as it has no rivals in difficulty. For petes sake, please PLAY THE CLASS.
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Well I hope so… One class should not have it all like they currently have.
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Crowd Control arguably the best in the game. i.e. disarm, sap, blind, gouge, smoke bomb, and worst of all 10 seconds or more of stuns at a time. (Its to the point where us other people would also like to play the game…)
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Survivability is unmatched the best in the game imo. (It goes unsaid that basically every rogue duel either ends with them vanishing, resetting the duel until they get the desired outcome or I forfeit the duel). With tools such as cloak of shadows, evasion, feint death, sprint, vanish, shadow step, cheat death. A rogue should rarely die unless he is careless or impatient or trying to save someone else and gets desperate. People will say, “well when we are out of stealth and don’t have CDs we are squishy…” well, get in line behind every other class that cant just vanish to escape death.
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Mobility is above average. With the speed boost in stealth, the short CD of sprints, shadow step. If you want to know about mobility issues, look up a ret or a DK.
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Burst is close to the top if not the best. If a rogue does not kill you in an opener… he will vanish, reset and then kill you. There is no skill level that can overcome not having a trinket and sitting in a stun until death. If you are lucky enough to be a paladin or something similar to having a bubble… no matter. Just vanish, wait it out for a CD or 2 come back for kill. You have enough CD to prevent a person from running away during that time anyway. (Sap, blind, distract, gouge)
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Damage over time is still insane, for a short period of time it is the best, even affi locks are not producing numbers like that. A rogue still has just as good if not better bleeds then a druid. Only difference is at least I can move or play the game against a druid rather then sit through a 10 second stun and wait for death. (Let me play the game)
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Self heals… oh the one area that might not be top tier… At least you still have a button that is going to generate health and is on a relatively small CD. It is still better then DH, mage, warlock, warrior, and some others.
Sorry for the venting, but it is infuriating that a class can be this over powered, every patch, season, or expansion. People will say “then just play one.” I can’t, I feel like it takes a curtain personality to play, if you don’t play a rogue you will understand what I mean.
Outlaw ain’t hard:joy:
No it’s really not.
If only that were objective and quantifiable. It’s neither so it will never be a thing. Adorable that some of you still try to beat that drum and just don’t comprehend why that’s not a thing.
So first - they dont balance around duels.
Rogue survivability (in particular assassination) is not great. especially when match against dot classes like aff lock, spriest, unholy DK (the literal god of arena)
rogue mobility is on par with other melee like warrior/feral. its better than paladin/dk/enhance but worse than DH.
Sub rogue burst is really good but still isnt able to set up burst quite like warrior/paladin/dh. vanish resets for sub are pretty decent, but for assassination its not that great. assassinations damage isnt quite as up front and their opener burst doesnt hit as hard or last as long as some others. Ret/warrior/dh/feral burst is way better.
also this whole vanish and wait 1 min for your cds to reset isnt a thing you can do in arena. your partners are going to get really annoyed with you when all you do is leave combat > wait for burst CDs.
garrote damage is the only dot that is doing well for assassination and it doesnt do as much damage as dots from unholy or shadow priest. the main difference is the silence on it.
dot damage for sub isnt great.
if you think rogue bleeds are as good as feral idk what to tell you. feral druids out here doing 30-40k dps sustained against 3 targets. assasination has to wait for a vanish or reset into stealth in order to set up garrote again. if you let them do that, its on you.
-DH has Fodder… it heals them for 45% of their health instantly, has a rather high proc chance, and they have the mobility needed to kite you till it procs from them spamming throw glaive at you which is also a snare.
-Mage has a 40% heal while they are in ice block, passive healing from barrier, and altar time.
-warlock has all the healing in the world idk what youre talking about here.
-warrior (fury) has great self healing… its actually all they have. Arms has so much burst that they shouldnt be able to do a lot of self healing. its always been that way.
i feel like you cant beat a rogue in a duel and thats what youre basing your post around.
I could get behind bliz nerfing the silence on garrote. the damage nerf is way over the top. especially given that DKs just exist.
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