Watch any stream and most of the teams qing over 2400 have a feral or rogue. Go watch cdews stream from last night. When he was qing rmp they q’d into 1 team not playing with a feral or rogue. Nearly every high rated mage, sp, hunter, and warlock is playing with a rogue or a feral.
Can a hunter stun the entire team to set up for their caster teamates? Then follow it up with a blind sap. Or can a warlock stun 2 targets then clone the healer every stun dr? All those specs you mentioned have cc, but it all has longer cd’s and is less consistent than feral or rogue. Also this is mainly compared to melee. Every single melee actually has less than half of rogue and feral cc. It’s not even fair to compare them.
This was more referring to tournament play. Where they are actually represented 5x more than nearly every other class. But even at high ratings they still dwarf nearly other spec, apart from the specs that primarily play with them.
Like I get it, you’ve been challenger all your life. You’ve never played a good rogue or feral before apart from maybe pikaboo doing viewer 2s. It’s not your fault for not realizing how good they actually are when played by real players. But just please, watch any awc tournament in the last 5 years and see how prevalent rogues are. There’s a reason nearly every single tournament team plays with one.
You said top 1%, not top .001%. And no one said Ferals weren’t good. I said that if the premise of “Stuns make a class OP”, then why aren’t rogues MORE represented than ferals if they have MORE stuns?.
Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. I’m not going to even try to prove a personal observation wrong.
They can’t do those things, but they still have strong overall CC and representation.
You shift the goalposts on every post, class someone who’s clearly played at the 2ks repeatedly as a Challenger (And I take pride in my consistent Challenger performance, kthx. My rating doesn’t change the numbers). I don’t mind being bad at the game, but it doesn’t mean I’ve never played against good players, lol.
Rogues are good.
Ferals are good.
Stuns are not the only reason why. What point are you even trying to make, exactly?
Mages don’t stun at all and they’re all over the place, lol.
I won’t go back and forth with you any more, because you’re going to think Rogues are OP no matter what. There’s a difference between strong or viable and just blatantly OP and I highly recommend you look into that.
Wars could make a good case vs that. It’s always been either rogues and/or warriors. The seasons where rogues weren’t that great, warriors were pretty amazing and vice versa or they both happen to be optimal picks.
No I said top 1% of feral or rogue players. Which is less than the top 1%.
I’ve given you examples, you refuse to observe them.
check.pvp 6 seasons played, 5 of them peaked at challenger 2.
yes it does, if you are bad at the game you don’t q into the good players so you don’t play against the good players. That’s just how it works?
ok ok but just answer this for me? If rogue isn’t op why does the majority of AWC teams play with a rogue. And 100% of the awc’s finals were won by a team with a rogue?
Wat the hell is SPM stun per mintue? People will will say anything to prevent thier class get nerf. I dont even care about maim 20s or 30s. You dont stun when stun on Dr except kill window. Max you can do is 3 full stun per minute. Reading your post make me gettting headache.
per target. You can stun kill target and healer every go for the first 90 seconds of the game as feral. And rogue can just do that every dr to every target if they wanted to with restuns.
Your entire posts reads as “dont nerf feral theyve been viable for a season and have always been budget rogue, but all melees need to go up to rogue level, but dont nerf feral”.
Whats easier, to return 1s cc to every single melee and posibly break the game entirely or just tune feral and rogue down in their cc?
what makes you think that a spec should be equivalent to another? every class/spec has its own identity. What about all the other specs that have 8-10 sec stuns per minute? Warriors should get stormbolt on 5 sec cd? or better yet, costs 20 rage?
Feral had 10 sec cd maim all the way back in wotlk. It’s part of its identity and always has been. But for every cc warrior doesn’t have (and it should have more) it should have utility that actually makes up the difference, which it doesn’t right now.
whether you agree or not, clipping a sentence to change the meaning is wrong - on anyone’s post.
neither should have an advantage. all specs should be equally powerful.
for the same reasons I didn’t mention all the tools that rogue has that feral doesn’t. and rogues tools have proven to be stronger, given that all of dragon flight rogue was meta and feral was mid/bad, and feral had the exact same cc’s it has now. Which only proves that it is other factors that have caused feral to become meta, such as the massive bleed buffs it received at the start of the expansion. These changes that made it meta can easily be reverted.
feral wasn’t meta at all in df and theres zero reason it can’t go back to the way it was when it was worse than probably many other melee as well as a way of bringing it in line, rather than nerfing the parts of it that are interesting so that it becomes more reliant on damage tuning and potentially causing many to quit playing it. With your suggestion, the meta goes back to a rogue only meta or rogue + temporary fotm melee meta that it’s been in since bfa. You could even shift its damage heavily from bleeds to bites and it would become much worse without ruining the fun parts of the spec.
Like it or not I actually 100% agree with this at least for Rogue. Rogue is the only class in the game where in the right hands its a powerful class and then in average hands its mediocre for the most part.
I will give you Feral but I will agree to disagree on Rogue. When I play I see people more abusing BM Hunter (I am Guilty on this one) or other classes at the moment with Feral included in that. Been seeing more jungles watching late night streams.
It absolutely was, it just had that awful feral frenzy cyclone talent.
Feral +mage and feral+dev were bananas comps, and I had quite a bit of success playing feral+boomy (even played with rdruid sometimes!)
At the end of the day, feral for sure has too much damage and utility in its kit relative to survivability. It was okay to nerf feral.
In the current state of the game, healers are SO strong and most dps are so durable that the ONLY way to secure kills (outside of 6-7+ minute damp games) is through consistent stun goes.
Feral and rogue both disproportionately dominate in those areas, especially when pairing them with a caster.
