With today’s PTR available and T2.5 gear and set bonuses revealed, I wanted to give some feedback on how the 2p and 4p bonus seem to be shaping up for our meta.
2p bonus: Not sure what this cleave is supposed to provide in the rogue tank toolkit, considering MG+SS if our lowest threat option and the 2p core forged bonus is already aimed at helping with AoE threat. Maybe for the odd trash pack in raid not to feel completely helpless against every other tanks powerful AoE? On bosses it doesn’t have any value since most are single targets, and if we need cleave on pull we have Blade Flurry and the set bonus doesn’t stack with it.
4p bonus: The leech/blood tank archetype is interesting and a novel playstyle, but the numbers seem way off. Looking at current BWL numbers for tanks running MG, sinister strike has an average cast of 600 damage which would translate into 60 healing per cast. Considering that during the MG window, we have to cast other abilities like finishers, we’re looking at around 240-300 healing per 20 seconds, or 12-15hps.
All of those issues are amplified by the fact that MG can miss or be dodged or parried, and when that happen we get zero benefits from it and our set bonus for 20 seconds. This was “fixed” by 6p draconic tank set bonus (but looking at logs, maybe 10 rogues used it because SSL is just much more competitive), but we wont be able to combine T2.5 with 6p T2. The new expertise stat will help with that issue, but won’t negate it completely.
Looking at the BWL rogue tank meta, almost everyone is leaning hard on SSL and completely ignoring the Draconic tank set, by either running 4p dps for the threat and damage, or 6p coreforge tank set for the mitigation. With T2.5 dps 2p buffing SSL even more, there’s a good chance that rogue tanks who want to optimize their build will once again ignore the tank set bonuses.
12 Likes
There’s really just no point to use Main Gauche. Defensively, we can already reach avoidance cap it doesn’t do anything. Offensively, it’s worse threat than saber slash in all situations and also worse dps.
Not only that but as Fynnen mentioned even if we WERE using main gauche these set bonuses would be bad. The 2pc Cleave isn’t useful for a class that already has blade flurry and 2pc core forged. The 4pc is hilariously undertuned and won’t provide a meaningful amount of healing or shielding over the course of a fight.
Please change these set bonuses to do something or we’ll just use the dps rogue set… again. Also it would be great if main gauche was a useful rune.
4 Likes
As the only person who actually uses Main Gauche, I completely agree with the above posts. The only reason Main Gauche is working for me currently is because I have 6pc Draconic and Thunderfury. I also tank in a decently casual guild. I keep looking at the new T2.5 set bonuses and cannot seem to understand how they are good. Losing my 6pc Draconic just isn’t worth it.
I’ve been begging for months for Main Gauche ITSELF to be a viable rune. Please please please stop making Main Gauche viable through set bonuses. Please. Just make Main Gauche a viable rune on its own and then go wild with set bonuses, sure.
Possible fixes for Main Gauche:
-Reduce base cooldown to 10 seconds.
-Reset its own cooldown any time you parry.(change parry percentage to 5%, down from 100%.)
-Increase Sinister Strike damage by 50%
-Main Gauche now attacks with both weapons and generates a high amount of threat.
In any case, Main Gauche CANNOT have a 20 second cooldown. That alone is killing the rune. Almost no one uses this rune. Please please please change that. Just take the risk. Make it good.
Again, I’m like the only person that actually uses Main Gauche. And I’m telling you…it’s really bad unless you’re full T2 with Thunderfury. That feels terrible to say.
3 Likes
MG Rune Rework
Remove the cool down from MG
Damage done by MG increases by 1 stack every x(5?) seconds it is not used. (Solves some snap)
Every time you dodge or parry, the stack increases.(Not a viable group content dps rune now)
stack it to 3 or 5
This could be enough, but if you want to find a way to add some defensive class fantasy, be my guest.
Adjust the tuning of it so it out performs Saber Slash and everyone is happy. Blizz gets people to use this rune, the people get to optimize. Win-Win
Now we can move into AQ40 and all be happy people…
1 Like
Huge rogue player forever, was extremely excited to tank as a rogue in sod (still am) and disappointed in the rogue tanking set bonuses for aq and bwl.
2 Likes
Right. Main Gauche is the “tanking” rune. It needs to be able to compete with Saber Slash and Mutilate for threat but also do decent damage and still give defensive capabilities.
The real issue is that as long as we are avoidance capped there is no reason to pick something that deals significantly less damage. It needs to either deal equal damage/threat or provide some sort of utility
3 Likes
Agreed. The guaranteed parry on cast is a nice mechanic. However, the 20 second cooldown just kills it. Even if they reduce the cooldown to 10 seconds, that’s a huge step forward. When the Main Gauche buff is down, it’s terrible.
But yes, its threat and damage output needs to be addressed.
Definitely reduce the cooldown.
Also, maybe have Main Gauche synergize with Riposte. Have it increase the damage of Riposte by 100% and remove Riposte’s cooldown. Or have Main Gauche give Riposte the ability to attack with both weapons.
Main Gauche ITSELF needs something.
1 Like
^ This. Make MG good by itself. Not through set bonuses.
its honestly insulting how they haven’t leaned into riposte/ghostly strike in ANYTHING rogue tank related.
MG having 50% uptime just makes T2.5 bonus worthless (even if the rune was actually somewhat competitive) - these set bonus should just be baked onto the rune itself then it MIGHT get some use (probably not, SS still hits like a noodle compared to SSL).
Zirene mentioned the designer wanted a ‘drain tanking’ playstyle:
1, isnt that just a warlock ?
2, healing for 50hp per SS is worthless compared to the straight Mitigation we get from going DPS set.
I seriously hope they address MG itself, its currently looking like another phase wearing a full/half DPS clown suit.
2 Likes
Again, agreed. I’m the only one that even uses MG and I can honestly say, the new T2.5 sets looks pretty bad. The cleave is kinda laughable and the self-healing is so minimal that it won’t make much of a difference.
I’ll test it on the PTR tomorrow, but…idk 
your pretty much a DK in leather.
and warlocks are a far better DK in cloth
Set bonuses are baffling. Not only did they botch the tank set, but the dps as well. Currently DPS rogues have the option to choose between different builds (SSL/Muti/BS) and now they’re all being forced into combat SSL? lol, why? Why are the set bonuses forcing us into runes? And the irony that Tank rogues ARE combat AND use SSL… but our set is forcing us into a rune that nobody uses lol.
Who designed this? I saw the tweet about being a ‘drain tank’ and I can’t understand. How are we the drain tank when warlocks exist literally with a ‘drain life’ spell? Because you attached (thru a tier set btw) a life leech/barrier effect to SS? What are we talking about here. Maybe if we could lean into that better with Carnage, Crimson Phial, Recuperate, and many of the other rogue regenerative abilities that have existed (or could exist, we can make new stuff for SoD right?) it would make sense but none of that exists. So what are we doing?
We have no niche to fill. Our damage was gutted and we’re behind on threat. BWL has been an awful experience watching in awe as my paladin counterpart blows me out of the water in threat while he afk scrolls through instagram despite my greatest efforts, and it looks like things are going to continue in that direction if not get worse. Very fun, much to look forward to.
2 Likes
also if we end up dropping coreforge 2-set, ALL back runes become completely worthless
3 Likes
Instead of being a “drain tank”, I think it would make more sense to be a stagger tank, like monks. I get rogues have the bleed effects that fit that assassination fantasy, but it seems the main direction of rogue tank has been high avoidance, low mitigation.
3 Likes
‘Just a flesh wound’ also fits stagger tank theme alot more than the complete mismatch we have now.
It would also allow them to address the issue of us hitting avoidance cap as overcap could just buff stagger% or something.
Even the AQ items have expertise on them, which directly nerfs the draconic 6-set of MG resetting lol, there is no synergy between anything.
1 Like
I want to Tank but reading this makes me re-think it. =)
you can tank, just go full DPS tier sets 