Or roll paladin or shaman and save yourself the headache 
I do have a TF… =)
I’m gearing up for tanking. Would be nice if you could switch ur tier around for gold.
To go further with the 4p set bonus, a fully geared tank opting for pure mitigation (4p t2.5, 2p timeworn, 2p bloodfang tank) will hit 15.2k hp fully buffed.
15.2k hp * 0.2 = 3k overshield possible. With 10% life leech on 600-700damage SS, that represents 50 casts within the MG buff window to build up, while we take damage.
The healing is severely undertuned to accomplish anything noticeable. And it is known that rogues stack a lot of avoidance this phase, and even more next phase which make a shield even less impactful.
Also, regarding Main Gauche as a whole.
Right now there are two main playstyles, SSL threat/dps focused build, and MG Build. The main problems right now are:
- Sinister Strike does less damage than Saber Slash
- Sinister Strike does less threat than Saber Slash (even with MG buff)
- You actually lose mitigation by running Main Gauche. Not being avoidance cap’d make you take physical damage, and losing the 4p coreforge tankslayer bonus makes you take more magic damage.
Those two playstyles remind me a lot of deep prot vs fury prot warriors back in classic. Deep prot was low risk, low reward. You had terrible threat, terrible damage, but you were not squishy like a fury prot tank. On the other side, fury prot was high risk, high reward and necessary for optimal groups not to feel limited by their tanks’ threat. Except right now SSL tanks are low risk, high reward.
The gap is too big between those playstyles for MG to feel rewarding. I think some solutions could be:
- Increase Sinister Strike threat by a lot to compensate for the lower damage. Let’s make the MG build lower damage/higher threat, and SSL lower threat/higher damage.
- Make Main Gauche feel less “on or off”. By losing 6p draconic, it will be at best 50% uptime, and a miss/parry/dodge will nullify any utilty from the rune for a whole 20 seconds. Maybe a passive similar to cutthroat and sfts, synergizing with riposte instead?
I really want to try a MG build in SOD for fun, but it would have a big impact on some players in my group having to hold back on threat making their experience less fun. Also the loot distribution makes it very hard to play around mutiple styles, most of my group don’t have all their t2 pieces it’d be impossible to take some “just to trying a build one day”.
3 Likes
Exactly. The cooldown on Main Gauche needs to be addressed the most. The buff it gives to Sinister Strike is great but it’s instantly underwhelming when the Main Gauche buffs falls off. For Main Gauche to compete in any way, we HAVE to have 100% uptime. Otherwise, our threat is quite underwhelming.
Personally, I think Main Gauche is almost there. It just needs another push on the rune itself to make it actually viable in a raid setting.
here are my suggestions to fixing it while keeping the T2.5 bonus:
- buff MG to have more uptime OR have the T2.5 set heal+cleave active all on the time.
- buff MG to increase threat generated by RIPOSTE (why hasn’t this been used at all).
- have the T2.5 bonus ALSO apply to RIPOSTE with increased heal% (since the heal on SS is abysmal since it hits like a noodle compared to SSL)
Id also advocate for having the cleave bonus hit the same target twice if there isnt a second but maybe thats going too far.
Will the SS/MG cleave give 2 combo points ?
- if it does, apply the heal to evis also IMO.
1 Like
Main Gauche having synergy with Riposte is an amazing idea. Fits with the fencing fantasy.
I will preface this by saying I don’t tank so this is legitimately me asking.
What if, instead of changing main gauche, they made a piece of gear that added ghostly strike. That way you could alternate them at 10 seconds?
I assume that doesn’t help, but I am trying to think outside the box. And if that is stupid, feel free to say so and move on lol. Like I said, I don’t tank.
ghostly strike and even evasion itself is worthless next phase as we are hitting avoidance cap so easily
2 Likes
Not a bad idea. I think incorporating Riposte fits a bit more. But incorporating Ghostly Strike would be cool too.
2 Likes
With the latest items available in sim tools, we can now compare optimal setups.
SSL setups will do:
- 50% more threat
- 60% more damage
- Without sacrificing survivability
MG was never competitive, but with every phase the gap is widening. A small subset of players were using MG last phase in BWL, but there’s no upside to using it and even less next phase
1 Like
Just make MG massively increase riposte threat.
Give us a higher TPS / lower DPS build option.
currently all rogues have to build threat is do DPS, thats why SSL is so far ahead.
I’m doubtful blizzard will even touch the set bonus, for the love of god do SOMETHING with riposte (add it to the set bonus !!!) - EVERY rogue tank takes this talent.
1 Like
The fact that SSL does 50% more overall threat than MG is insane. It’s so obvious MG still needs quite the upgrade TO THE RUNE ITSELF. Please Blizz, stop buffing runes through set bonuses. Just give MG at least another 50% threat buff to SS or have MG amplify Riposte in some way.
At this point, the rogue tanking community has given so much feedback and ideas for MG, there’s no reason to not buff it. It’s immensely clear how underwhelming MG is. It’s a seasonal version of WoW. Just take the chance. Make MG really good for just one phase. Let’s see how it works.
whos ready for -30% dodge chance when using JaFW ?
2 Likes
You worked your a$$ off and got full tier 2? Now you feel strong and your effort is paying off? Feeling pretty tanky? Well, we can’t have you having fun. NERF HAMMER.
so you’re telling me the rogue, the agility centered class who dodges and parries, now has less dodge than any other tank in the game? Don’t worry though, UA got buffed for all that dodging we’ll be doing. Less dodges = less UA which also = less CP which = less finishers which = less threat/damage.
lol what are we doing here. we had a good run (lol one phase) but i think this is where the ride ends. again, baffling changes and decision making.
1 Like
Not sure its final,
It didnt make it to todays patch atleast (which is good)
but the suggested change to JaFW is:
-30%, 10% phys damage reduction (30% total), + damage reduction based of defense rating.
Unfair advantage buffed to 150% wep damage on opener.
Honestly these are crazy, they may aswell just give us res sickness with JaFW equiped, i want to see red everywhere on my character panel.
equipping a tank rune to be NERFED is not fun at all, i get avoidance cap is a big issue this phase, there have been countless good suggesting on the rogue discord, my pick is:
Convert dodge% to parry% above a certain threshold at X% ratio,
actually USE riposte in tank set design, and MG should also increase riposte threat a bunch (because even with the change SSL still is miles ahead on TPS).
OR
Brewmaster much stagger ? extra dodge above threshold converts higher % damage taken to a bleed ?! (my dream change)
They could then tweak the T2.5 set to REMOVE damage off the bleed when using MG/SS/Riposte ?? (threat still needs to be buffed a bunch to compete with SSL)
2 Likes
Classic rogue dev does not know what is going on. They say they’re “in touch”, yet the entire community screams for one thing. Then they deliver the complete opposite. I’m done trying. Rip rogue tanks.
God tier suggestions. Too bad they’ll fall on deaf ears.
incase you are not on the discord:
proposed changes (not final just yet):
Just a Flesh Wound:
- phys damage TAKEN reduction to 30% (was 20%)
- phys damage TAKEN reduction by 1% for every 12 defense
- now reduces chance to dodge by half (does NOT reduces evasions dodge)
Main Gauche:
- 300% threat on impact (was 100%)
- 15 sec CD (was 20)
- always applies buff to you (even when miss/dodge/parry ect)
- discounted SS lasts 30seconds (was 10sec)
- SS impact threat from buff increase to 200% (was 150%)
Unfair Advantage:
- deals 150% weapon damage (was 100%)
Tank Tier 2.5 Set Bonus:
- shield from SS increased to 15% of damage dealt (was 10%)
Good changes all round imo, ill definitely take them, we were heard.
1 Like
You know, they could also revert the dmg nerf on JaFW while they are at it, which would help out Sinister Strike to be used in favor of Saber Slash with those changes.
We dodge and parry so that we do not get crushed. That’s the point of our avoidance.