Hunter Flares tend to pull me out of stealth even though I was no where near the flare.
Should I be getting punished vs Hunter’s in pvp? My Rogue isn’t BiS, so I can’t kill while they are completely stunlocked, so everytime, everyone, they have the macro’d
/cast feign death
/passive pet
/cast freeze trap
Then I’m stuck there. A good rogue will put a hunter’s mark on me and/or include serpent sting making Vanish useless. I can use blind (but first gotta get back in range) if it’s not on CD, but I still have to gouge pet just to bandage, if I do get in range, now I have to try and balance between uptime and staying in their dead zone all the while a pet is attacking me.
vs. Warriors…
The Overpower is just killer. When facing a human, if they are smart, they pop Perception, but again, trying to navigate time between deadzone and uptime becomes difficult when get a hamstring in.
vs. Mages
Constant blinks + frost nova’s. I don’t think a mage should be losing to a rogue. Kite for days. I know it can be done… but you need all your CD’s (including prep) to be up and hope they don’t pull you out of stealth when you use vanish.
vs. Shamans, Pallys, Warlocks, Druids, Priests
Well… can’t say much, since I don’t see much of them 1v1.
Anyways… looking for some tips of what I’m missing. I love my Rogue, but I feel like I’m missing out on some key things to up my game.
Hunter flare has near instant travel in classic. You will find dealing with mages and hunters easier with the 16/12/22 spec for daggers. While warriors will be harder. Hemo now will make fighting rogues and warriors easier but cloth harder to handle. Restorative potions where mentioned and along with the First Aid anti venom stuff.
Improved Sprint will make mages and hunters a bit easier. Improved sprint and preperation will make them easy.
As already mentioned above, you have two choices really for viable PVP specs.
16-12-22 Daggers is great against clothies and hunters.
Hemo/CB is great against rogues and warriors.
I’d suggest playing both and see what one you like more. Both rely on cooldowns, but I feel like the dagger spec is more heavily reliant on them. Also, keep in mind there’s less competition for end game daggers than there are for endgame swords.
The flare area is twice the rendered flare, so that’s why it is popping you out. Look for the flare placement, and double it.
Feign death 9/10 leads to a trap, so as soon as FD pops just step back. You can see the trap so just walk around it while killing the hunter. Many attempt to get you to pop it and become fixated, in this time you are killing them. The other 1/10 FDs they just lay there like you don’t notice they aren’t dead or something, so just stand at max melee range to avoid a trap if it happens while you kill them.
Hunters Mark is dispelled by vanish, so you still can vanish.
If you have serpent sting on you and have no remedies, then you can either vanish when it fades or use vanish aggressively when you’re in range. Wait for a SS tick > vanish > Cheap Shot.
Try to save blind if you end up slowed without any ability to remove it. As soon as the hunter is out of melee range, blind.
Pop evasion early on and end it fast. You should keep the hunter stun locked, so the evasion is actually to make the pet useless.
If you get trapped, which should only happen from scatter shot, it’s the only chance for the hunter and their one trick. It will lead to an aimed shot into concussive shot. You’ll eat the aimed shot, eat the concussive shot, pop imp sprint (or fap sprint) + evasion (if it’s still up), close the distance and stun lock into kill.
Crip Poison on MH and OH to ensure max up time.
Imp Sprint or Vanish out of slowing effects.
Focus on stun lock.
Kill the hunter.
Avoid using evasion unless you are in the execute phase. At this point it’s rough, but I’d rather dodge an execute and eat a overpower than get executed.
If it is a human, keep good range, watch and listen for the perception pop. Wait it out, then engage.
I typically go for a bleed kill, while keeping the warrior slowed via crip poison. This helps reduce rage generation.
Crip Poison on MH and OH, or Deadly MH Crip OH.
While a move difficult match up, maintaining crip on them, focusing bleeds, stacking deadly poison, and rage starving will help.
If it’s a PvE warrior in the leather BiS gear, just stun lock it to death as usual.
Kill the warrior.
Ah mages… wait for them to eventually drink, sneak up behind, Ambush > Evis. If still alive, blind, restealth, cheap shot > Evis. Dead mage.
If you do get ranged or opened on, once slowed/nova’ed pop imp sprint (if wanted fap at this point), close distance, gouge. Then reset into a stun lock or ambush depending on the remaining health.
Vanish and imp sprint to remove slows/nova offensively. If you have range and no DoTs on you, vanish defensively for a reset if needed. But do not run toward the mage, they will Blizzard the spot you were on or a spot between you or run toward where you while casting AE. Rather, run directly left/right/away from your position being that mages dont cast blizzard in these directions.
I aim to end it fast, usually only needing ambush > evis > blind > cheap shot > backstab > evis to kill them.
If you get poly’ed, I usually gauge how the mage plays: if aggressive right into casts, I typically trinket immediately, imp sprint, gouge, reset into ambush or cheap shot depending on mage HP. If defensive, I wait on the trinket to see what they do, if they close distance toward you, I trinket at that point.
Mind numbing MH, Crip OH.
Focus bursting as much as possible, staying on them with crip poison, using imp sprint and vanish for slows/novas.
Kill the mage.
Shammies:
Mind Numbing MH, Crip OH.
Kill earthbind totems. Focus on stun lock and getting interrupts. If kick is on CD for a heal, gouge. I tend to use vanish aggressively on shammies, when in melee range vanish directly into a cheap shot.
Pallies:
Wound Poison MH, Crip OH.
Focus stun lock, use evasion whenever available, and just grind them down. I’ll usually use blind and vanish defensively to reset after they pop CDs. Once you force the bubble, back off and vanish. Once you force the LoH, blind and reset. Don’t ever stand in consecration, just step out of it and make them come to you; if they burn mana and a gcd to recast, step out again.
Warlocks:
Mind Numb MH, Crip OH
Focus on stun lock. If they sac, burn the bubble asap via CDs, or CC them if you aren’t DoTed heavily and okay on hp. Trinket the fear immediately if it happens, and sprint to re-engage if they got distance, but with crip and instant trinket they probably won’t. If it’s a Felhunter lock, just stun lock to death. If it is a succubus lock (any you see without a minion out), use trinket on the charm, focus on kicking fears; you can also cc the succubus.
Druids:
Wound MH, Crip OH
Focus on stun lock, especially when they are out of bear form. Use sprint if they get any distance on you, or if you get routed. Ensure to keep them in melee range and it’s a pretty easy match up. If you get faeried, vanish is only good to force a target drop, but should only be used in niche circumstances.
Priests:
Mind Numb MH, Wound OH
Stun lock to death. Trinket the fear immediately. Focus on ensuring you kick heals or holy spells such as smite. If kick is down, gouge any heals.
Kill the Shamans, Pallys, Warlocks, Druids, Priests.
Remember as well, just because you’re PvPing doesn’t mean you should have the trinket on. Only wear it for match ups it helps against, namely mages, locks, priests, and warriors.
I typically use the 2% crit trinket on hunters/shammies/druids to maximize burst and a counterattack lodestone on other rogues. My main trinket is HoJ though, and it never comes off, so it depends on your kit. Luffa is handy for warriors as well, but I rarely use it.
Engineering is also amazing since you can use nades to interrupt casts and close distance. The rocket helm to close distance and cc is op. Death ray, need I say more?
Above all else, the key to remember when playing a rogue is this: you’re not a warrior.
Simple, I know. But don’t play like one.
We are an opportunist class, so take every advantage.
See blood fury just popped? Wait in stealth for all the rage to fade again before engaging.
Fighting with a mage? Wait for them to kill a mob or two, for mana to start dropping below 40%, and for their shield to take a few swings. When they pull the next mob, as it closes and they use Cone or nova, then engage. Or once they sit to drink, get behind and ambush into a blind.
Having trouble getting a farm spot? Wait for them to have mobs on them, then open.
What I’ve found is rogues are very underwhelming in pvp in classic. They are decent in 1v1 situations but pretty garbage in AV. In BC they get a lot of buffs and new abilities that make them a lot more solid.
rogues are used to popping consumables, we get more value out of them than most classes do in pvp. its nice that thistle tea is considered a food and doesnt put potions on CD
Why would you engage without CDs? In a duel it’s good practice, but in open world there’s no reason to as a rogue. Once you kill them the first time, based on GY distance grind near the corpse and restealth early to kill as soon as they respawn. Rinse lather repeat until the honor node decides to farm somewhere else lol
Not saying it doesn’t happen sometimes, or you get unlucky, or out matched. But you really don’t need to engage without CDs usually.
Not really, walk up to area, spy tells me someone is there, stealth and kill.
Also… it’s a stealth class?? Why would I not use it to my advantage?
Ganking =/= playing a class the way it’s designed.
Is the only thing you consider PvP a 1v1 duel? PvP is any type of engagement between two or more players, period.
I take it when you and your buddies are in open world and come across an uneven number of people, your group will sit out and allow a XvX even match. Or that if you come into a grind spot, you allow the other player to fully eat/drink, then bow and engage?
Also, what part of what you quoted do you think is ganking? Killing someone when they res? To get to that point, you need to still kill them the first time…
thats how classic rogue is played. makes us good in every bg, plus duels and wpvp. i dont see how you can say the class is bad when they have a role in every type of pvp
I said “its a decent 1v1 class”. Now if we’re talking about ganking… of cause they are top tier. But then again any class can wait till someone is low on mana, health and or over pulls on mob and get a kill.
With out cd’s you better stay in stealth and avoid people. LOL