It’s more useful to use that rune slot for Shadowstep or Poisoned Knife for situational usage compared to Shuriken toss, just because of how bad Shuriken Toss is. 15% of attack power (at 1000 attack power, at level 60 or so let’s say) is 150. 150 damage over up to 5 targets.
We get target capped, we have absolutely abysmal scaling on the ability. I’d rather they have not added it at all instead of giving us one of the worst aoe abilities in the game.
Rogues don’t need AOE… shuriken toss may need some adjustment for rogue tanks… but let’s face it, there are way better options for tanks than a rogue. Rogues were given a tank spec, IMO, out of desperation because Blizz didn’t know what else to give rogues. Doesn’t make sense to have a rogue healer. I think if Blizz went rogue healing, they’d have to completely redesign the class and I’m most definitely against that.
Not every class needs to be able to do everything.
That is one major reason why retail, IMO, has fallen to the wayside in many respects.
Rogues were powerhouse single target DPS’ers in Vanilla, and are still amazing single target DPS’ers.
They are not amazing single target dpsers at the moment, and are unlikely to be desired unless they’re #1 dps in ST, which isn’t looking like the case versus the likes of Warriors and Mages, both of which can provide needed utility, which rogues still lack to a notable scale.
Why would I want a rogue who has abysmal aoe dps for clearing raids more effectively versus something like a fire mage or fury warrior who can do better single target dps while doing better aoe cleave for trash? Or how they can provide better raid utility (slows, rallying cry, AI, etc.)?
Don’t give a class a cleave tool if it can’t even be used for cleave. Rogue tanks are amazing due to their high avoidance and respectable dps, however they fall behind when actually clearing an instance with trash or multiple targets. That needs help.
As a tank player in general, and rogue tank specifically, if I’m not able to tank multiple mobs, why even bother playing a class I like with the role I like? it’s not appealing to play a tank and not even be able to tank more than one mob at a time.
Okay, you think rogues are not good ST DPSer’s, fine. I think rogues are fine. Could they be better? Sure, of course they can be better.
I am hoping that the addition of damage+ with an active bleed plays out nicely in P3… especially with saber slash as a potential come back play. Saber slash with swords (100% weapon damage)… and then you figure sword specialization + Thrash Blade. I look forward to seeing what that can do.
But what utility are you ultimately looking for? Honest question because I am not a fan of the new poisons.
The new poisons are going to be, IMO, relatively useless because I have a sneaking suspicion that the poisons will be overridden by other abilities (curses, humoculi, etc.). The armor reduction poison might be good, but I think it might be better to keep using DPS poisons instead of these poisons… again, with the potential exception of the armor reduction poison.
I’m glad you like rogue tanking though.
I don’t understand why people keep trotting this out when the “thing” we’re talking about is a baseline skill that every other DPS and Tank has access to.
You sound like the people trying to justify Druids never getting a proper resurrection spell until much later in the game.
We’re pretty piss poor right now, and while the new runes give Rogues quite a nice boost, it remains to be seen whether or not we can keep up with and overtake the many specs and classes still head and shoulder above us.
Okay but fan of knives not being in the game? SUPER weird. That’s a pretty iconic skill and would definitely make rogue more interesting.
It must eat you up inside that parses don’t mean anything.
I addressed that main point in my first post. Rogues dont need it. Shuriken just needs a slight buff to be useful for tanks, but rogues should stay single target dps. Thank you, come again.
Damn, that’s way overpowered. Nerf shuriken toss!
how do rogue not need it? we have no utility, no buffs, no debuffs, no aoe, and were bottom of the pack for damage.
explain how we dont need it?
everything. single. other. class. has aoe, buffs, debuffs, utility, and does more damage.
once again, explain how its not needed.
They can just buff Shuriken.
It caps out at 4 targets max, so I hit it when there’s 4 targets. It does a collective total of around 390 dmg for 30 energy. Meanwhile I can do nearly double that with a mutilate for 40 energy on one target. Which button do you think I’m going to be pressing blizzard? For a tank it doesn’t help either, cause… 4 targets total and all. Also does no damage so minimal threat compared to what everyone else is capable for. So who is this for?
Because different classes are different. Rogues have other tools and should have high single target damage. If single target damage is low then that is what should be tuned.
If you want every class to be the same, retail is —> that way.
I dont understand how rogues are crying about a class getting free combo points… with the new rune and non mechanical bosses I dont see how rogue is “bottom of the pack dps” in any world.
What a dog $!@^ excuse. “Homogenization waaah” ruins nothing. All you’re essentially saying is its okay for one class to suck at everything while everyone else gets to do basic core utility. This is why nobody wants rogues in any form of content. Because anything a rogue can do, other classes can do better… AND MORE.
This is why MoP was the best expansion. WotlK is like cool narrative wise, Ulduar was so close to being peak raiding, but as far as gameplay and class balance I had the most fun playing multiple classes in MoP.
Okay that’s all well and good to say but rogues don’t use their AOE option because it’s so bad whilst literally every other class in the game including shadow priests have AoE - viable AoE.
We are also the only class with out any real solid utility at all outside of improved expose which is almost beaten by priests.
So we are missing two things every other class has
Saying warriors have AOE, when what they really have is 2 target cleave with a decently long 4 target whirlwind.
Warrior is a cleave class and is left in the dust on aoe by loads of specs now, hunters, priests, warlocks, mages shamans etc.
Rogues and warriors should def have some tweaked mass aoe, for warriors they could simply uncap whirlwind and make cleave 3 targets, that would be enough to make it not as bad.
Then why dont we remove mind sear, explosive arrow and the new aoe spells again, if we need classes to be unique?
That’s because rogues are NOT the bottom of the dps pack… and ANY rogue who claims to be at the bottom is either teamed up with an entire guild of rock star “elite” players… or the rogue in question just sucks.
Rogues were in the lower end of dps last phase.
Should be different this phase though
weird how raids stacked rogues in classic without any aoe or utility. hmmmmm i wonder what the difference could be between classic and sod phase 2 rogue. could it be that they didn’t suck at everything in classic, but were instead really good at a specific thing?no, that makes too much sense.