Rogue is still unpunishable, why are they the only class that can YOLO trinket < 3 second CCs in opener?

PVP Arenas
1

Yet when you’re facing rogue, if you insta-trinket the first 3 second cheap shot or even sap you are pretty much guaranteed to lose.

No other spec can do this. None. You are punished so hard on any other spec, but not rogue. Invigorating Shadowdust nerf didn’t even change a thing.

Love when I:
Reveal a rogue from stealth
Immediately Stormbolt the rogue to stop any setup
The rogue instantly trinkets this pathetic stun.
Gets instantly disarmed, CLOAKS IT
Continues with their training wheels go, just without sap

And they are still nearly impossible to kill. I’ve had this exact scenario happen many times.

Rogue has no counter. The only “counter” it has is playing with a rogue on your team. The reduction to stuns back in DF was actually a massive buff for the rogue class, most stuns are no longer long enough for them to die due to poor play. It’s honestly so gross.

Every expansion this class gets more training wheels for some reason, but doesn’t lose any of its tools.

What needs to happen at a minimum:
Need to choose between Shadowy Duel or Smoke Bomb, ideally they just get rid of duel.

Sap needs to require both the rogue and the target to be out of combat. Even AWC players get sapped mid-game in tourney play. If you get revealed, given how easy stealth is these days and how generous sap range is, you don’t deserve your almost-guaranteed 2v3 anymore.

I don’t even know what else they could tone down because there are so many things wrong with Rogue they could approach it from any angle. I personally think that 2 charges of step has to go. 2 charges of best gap closer in the game that they can use thoughtlessly because they have the most control in the entire game (no reason to use mobility if your target is stunned/CC for ~10 seconds during your go every 20 second DR)

Also, toning down their passive crippling poison slow to something around 30%. Same reason as above, into rogue teams you are spending a large majority of the game in CC, there’s no reason for them to have a thoughtless, powerful slow.

And finally, wound poison should be 15% max. Again, this class already has everything and does not need a top tier MS.

I believe these changes are all honestly fair.

22 Likes
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Cloak bubble is one of the most moron things blizzard has done this expansion.

4 Likes
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According to one extra crispy fried rogue, losing guaranteed opener would gimp them some how.

They need those training wheels.

5 Likes
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Forgot do nothing all game, then duel once damp is up and trinket down. Bam, game won.

5

That was added in the middle of DF for some odd reason. They look at death rates for 1400 rated rogues and tune them based off that. Completely ruining higher level gameplay

1 Like
6

Ya, permanent chains of ice is definitely something worth looking at IMO. One of the most underrated and strong parts of the kit. Also the longest duration MS effect in the game.

3 Likes
7

Agree. The biggest blunder in game design is allowing rogurs to trinket in the opener and evasion cloak vanish offensively (get trinket) to then reset and get a kill with duel.

No class should feel that comfortable blowing their defensives to get their damage off. Dks are also in the same bag, but dks can die un like rogues that will delay extend and even end the game far past a dk can do

2 Likes
8

Nahj thinks Rogues are fine if not a little underpowered atm. He’s Rank 1 btw so he would know.

9

Why hasn’t the choice node between those 2 abilities happen yet.

You shouldn’t be able to get both duel and smoke bomb. Should be one or the other not both.

3 Likes
10

I mean for a slow you can just put on just using your damage rotation it should be a lot lower.

Any slow 50% or higher should require player input. Not spam your damage ability and automatically put a slow on something.

1 Like
11

:100:
Or have a much lower duration.

2 Likes
12

Make breaking stealth great again, get rid of subterfuge.

3 Likes
13

we need a resident arena forums rogue to shill in this thread

1 Like
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  • Remove Subterfuge.
  • Remove Duel (ideal) / make it a choice node with Smoke Bomb.
  • Remove the physical tack-on to Cloak.
  • Restrict Cloak capping in Blitz, like all other immunities.
  • Reduce the efficacy of passive poisons.
  • Reduce range of Sap to make it less free.

There, I made Rogue halfway respectable.

1 Like
15

they are all busy shilling on the worldofpvp subreddit. seriousy look at these comments I got when I asked why duel hasn’t been removed from the game yet the other day

~https://www.reddit.com/r/worldofpvp/comments/1gi2gyw/blizzard_removing_pvp_talents_every_patch_but/

3 Likes
16

Dont ever go to reddit. Too much s0y has fried their brains.

17

leave they vegans alone. they don’t deserve to be lumped in with redditors.

18

Just wait until the 80% snares come from horde racials in 11.0.7. Just more tools for a rogue to control you.

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Stealth is the most OP thing in the game. Pair it with a pre combat cc and it’s going to always be god tier in pvp

1 Like
20

It used to be sensibly designed.

  • Movement speed was reduced.
  • Detection range was significantly larger (it’s basically non-existent now).
  • Sap range was lower.
  • No way to remove physical DoTs without Stoneform.
  • Stealth cooldown was longer after unstealthing (~10sec), which is still in effect for druids. Rewarded getting people out.
  • Subterfuge didn’t exist, allowing rogues to basically always have access to their stealthed CC kit.
  • Faerie Fire existed (RIP).

If it were still sensibly designed, rogues wouldn’t be quite as egregiously OP as they always are now. The abundant training wheels allow bad players to go without punishment for their misplays.

Rogues will cry that they’d be unplayable without crutches like Subterfuge, but Ferals function just fine. Hell, they don’t even have any sort of cloak, let alone a bubble cloak, and Incarnation only allows one restealth CC.

4 Likes