can we plz address this issue for the fact that rogues need to waste anywhere from 3-5 talents to have make so ure not completely energy starved for just 1 round of shuffle or an arena match like why does it have to pretty be a requirement to take full vigor and thistle tea for sub rogue or for outlaw u pretty much need to take full vigor, rushed setup, combat potency, fatal flourish, alacrity, and blade rush like who made these design choices
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That would be Realz and his discord cult.
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Never seen 1 outlaw rogue complain about energy all season, nice work.
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Is it actually a waste if you get more resources to do your damage
Can’t spam man, energy has always been our way of having a cool down so to speak. That’s how balance works and the supplemental energy talents add up to give a bigger picture on things cumulatively.
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Real question, if you never ran out of energy without energy talents… what would be the point of them?
obviously the tree has some gatekeeping to prevent you from just taking whatever you want whenever you want. This gatekeeping is partially forced pathing, and partially talents you are forced to take to deal good damage (not run out of energy).
You can consider these talents a “tax” if you want. Its what they are. Its how blizzard designed the new trees.
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Rogue energy was nuked because to make other talents work without much tuning.
That is the truth. The devs ran out of time.
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The combination of CP, GCD lock, and cooldowns are the cool down. We don’t need a second resource just to block our primary resource.
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While I do hear you, there is a reason we aren’t able to freely use abilities.
Part of that is probably attributed to being too close of damage profiles to dh / warrior/ paladins who appear to be more build dump and harm stuff around them constantly (not a complaint but good for them)
Us Rogues have semi finite resources that build in different ways as rogues( each if us function differently ) which leads to decision making based on what is going on and what / how the rogue decides to spend energy and combo points instead of max value of the other classes which does separate us from them if that is how they work. Dunno exactly as Im only a rogue and always will be.
Energy is for checks and balances and nothing more. We cannot be too efficient or we end up being more like eddie gordo in the old tekken spamming low kick.
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Removing energy doesn’t make the specs/class suddenly the same as other specs. Right now Rogue has 2 resources: Energy and CP, and right now Energy just:
- soaks up talent points that could otherwise make the class/specs feel more interesting to play
- frustrates when you hit that scenario where it’s suddenly empty for whatever reason
- adds artificial complexity while not bringing anything of actual interest to the game
Back in classic energy probably made sense, because everything was at a much slower pace. The game has changed. Every other class pretty much gets to use every gcd for an ability, there’s no reason rogue should be held back from doing so.
Nope, this is where you’re wrong. Energy is something that we have enough of because we taken all the talents to increase and we practically give it 0 thought until we mess up something (or in case of outlaw RNG hates you).
It’s just a second economy that almost naturally doesn’t empty to a point where you can’t cast, but when it does happen (through whatever reason), it just feels bad because you’re staring at your screen waiting for the energy to recover.
How does this argument hold up against outlaw when not a single GCD was blocked my lack of energy?
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Thats only true for outlaw. Outlaw has the least interaction with energy right now, and energy is basically a punishment mechanic. Both sub and sin run out of energy by design and it prevents them from being gcd capped. It also creates a different style of play (filler vs cds) where during your cds you are spamming and during your filler you are less spammy.
This is on purpose.
I do agree outlaw could use a better interaction with energy. I’m hoping we get some interesting energy talents in the assassination/outlaw hero tree. I dont think there is even the remotest of chances they remove energy from rogue so that seems like a silly thing to ask for.
To be clear, this is a purposeful talent tax. If they gave us all our energy back baseline and removed these, they would simply replace them with “Filler button does 20% more damage” and such to force you to still dump talents into them. The point of talents like these is to reduce the amount of “free” points you have to swap around between whatever you want. This has always been how blizzard designed these large talent trees. You arent supposed to just be able to put all the points wherever you want. They add talent taxes to the tree so you only have X points available to take all the utility/defensive/build unique options.
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Other classes don’t have to deal with this many talents just to get a non-terrible baseline resource gain.
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Sure but that doesnt matter at max level and other classes do absolutely have “tax” talents they must take to perform even if they arent interesting talents to limit how many “free” points they have to swap around.
Ours just tend to be resource generation talents. And that really only matters when you are leveling and dont have access to all of them. So they could fix it just to make leveling less painful? But it doesn’t matter at all at max level. Because the point of talent nodes like venemous wounds/Fatal flourish and such are to reduce how many free points you have.
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To be honest the justification for nuking energy is due to CP generation but marked for death was removed and seal fate is no longer available to Sub or Outlaw.
So yeah energy needs to be improved for all three specs again so they can actually open up talent choices and cut away all the bloated energy talents. The more energy talents that exist the more likely it is that the entire class will have an energy penalty by not taking all the energy talents. Frankly it is a big problem that has to be adressed.
The elegant solution would have been to move Relentless Strikes back to baseline for all specs, and tune down the energy talents so they can be optional and not mandatory.
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The rogue who was literally a verb meaning to blow all your cds rushing someone down without strategy.
…
Great…
In his credit he was really good at it… lol
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Its just so sad that they went the direction of just putting a bigger gas tank on us over idk actually an engaging resource system.
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Weird spam is all combat has done from cata to shadowlands.
thats a big lie lmao, but alright. god forbid resources actually mean something in this game. while while im twiddling my thumbs wasting copious amounts of holy power cause it means nothing as a resource. very fun gameplay…much engaging
I mean outlaw does still spam. If you are playing nearly perfectly and not making big or consistent mistakes (or on a fight like tindral that specifically punishes outlaw rogues this tier) then outlaw only has natural downtime in extreme outlier cases. It is not normal to run out of energy as outlaw currently without one of these factors being in play.
But outlaws engagement with energy currently is as a “punishment” system where you are punished for rotational mistakes by running out of it and slowing down dramatically, which I would happily see reduced or changed to a more active energy management.
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The main resource is combo points, energy hasn’t been relevant since the change to 1 ticks from 20, not sure why I would lie about something I’ve been playing for a long time.
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