Assassination feels like utter garbage to play in PvP. I hate that the meta is to go around and dot everything and have an AOE battle with 2+ players when weve never been AOE. I get that the rework allowed for it, but it shouldnt be the meta for pvp. The energy regen or it sucks and needing to rely on Thistle Tea feels terrible.
Sub is too gimmicky and I dont want to play it.
Outlaw has had me unimpressed since it came out in Legion.
Fix the class please. Especially Assass and requiring us to AoE to be relevant.
4 Likes
Maybe going back to old school energy instead of smoother energy is the way to go.
2 Likes
I wouldnāt hate it. Iām sure the class would fall off in popularity though.
2 Likes
Remove all talents that add energy regen/add to your energy pool, and normalize the energy regen for all specs.
Relentless strikes basline for all 3 please. Such a common sense talent. Refunding energy on finishers
3 Likes
Or just remove energy, we donāt need 2 different resources. What other spec has 2 layers of resources? Iām going to guess Feral and itās probably also a dumb design for feral.
Feral, monk, evoker (preservation), holy paladin, all 3 dk specs, Arcane mage.
Healers I wonāt count because of mana being a throughput balancing issue, not a spiking up-and-down resource. I canāt speak for any of these specs other than:
- Feral and WW monk always suffer from balancing issues
- Arcane Mage is considered by many to also be too complicated for what it brings
To me that just reinforces that having 2 resources is not really fitting anymore.
Although true, I donāt think monk and DK really has the same issues rogue does though. DK is about dumping that resource rather than ever being starved for it. And Iāve never felt energy starved when I tried monk, but I mostly played FW so could be wrong.
Feral feels like the same dumb design from what Iāve played of it so far.
2 Likes
I donāt really understand what you guys mean by dumb design. Since its inception energy has been a limiting factor to keep rogue from endlessly spamming abilities. Combat (later outlaw) would pick up energy talents in its tree to increase its spam and generally be the spammiest rogue spec while sub would vary between being more spammy some expansions and less others, and assassination was generally only spammy during cooldowns.
In all cases when we had these ālargeā talent trees and not the smaller ones of pandaria and beyond, we would be dumping many talents into energy gen to improve energy and make the specs more spammy. Did you expect these new talent trees to just be all interesting talents that let you take whatever you want? A lot of their design is just similar to the trees of cata and prior where theres talents you are expected to always take to function as a class, and that includes resources.
I think sins and subs current interaction with energy is fine. Sin is supposed to spam during CDs and play around pooling more between them. Sub was spammy earlier in the expac and they changed it to be more spammy during cds (which it uses much more frequently then sin) with more downtime outside.
I do agree outlaws current energy design leaves something to be desired. I donāt think removing energy is the fix here (but thankfully energy is such a core rogue resource I know theres no chance of it ever being removed so iām not worried about it). I would hope they would decrease the punishment feature of energy for outlaw and move the punishment into just damage loss and not playstyle loss while maybe using tea or other talents to let outlaw interact with energy in a more enjoyable way.
As for levelingā¦ well Iām going to be honest I think a lot needs to be improved about rogue leveling and rogue as a class has always had a very poor questing experience. I wont argue against anyone there, I just think blizzard truly doesnt care enough about such things.
I think the best fix to the problem of late energy talents making the flow of rogue leveling frustrating could be giving us a melee sustain passive like almost every single non hybrid melee spec has. I think rogue should get crimson vial early on and should have a passive where whenever we kill a monster that yields experience or honor, crimson vials CD is reset, its heal is boosted, and it generates energy instead of costing it (maybe even grants energy over time). This would be in line with DH/warrior where killing things grants you resources and healing while keeping it rogue themed and help with the leveling process quite a bit I think.
4 Likes
just make it so combo point generators cost energy and spenders cost no energy, or extremely minor like 10-15. idk why i need to spend energy to build points then also to use said points.
3 Likes
At least for me, Iād say itās a bit dumb because it feels like it might be almost redundant for outlaw at this point and I see where a lot of people are coming from. The only time energy really affects your rotation is mostly when AR drops and/or you lose momentum due to down time, which is mostly where our energy regen is feeling like a design flaw.
2 Likes
Yea I understand. And to be clear, this has been the case the entire expansion so far. Since s1, outlaws interaction with energy has been as a punishment mechanic. In s1/s2 a poor rotation would cause breaks in the proc loop/overcasting of inefficient spells leading to you running out of energy. But you had to play quite poorly for it to be noticable and actually stop the rotation (we only had ~50-60% AR uptime in those seasons).
In s3 they just made this punishment mechanic more visceral. If you make mistakes in your crackshot windows/proper usage of RtB and vanish/dance on CD, your AR will fall off. And we are designed to run out of energy as soon as AR runs out basically, so its still a case of āplaying wrong makes you run out of energyā, its just now the form is directly you make AR fall off for too long.
so the question is what do we make outlaws energy do? Since its only been a form of punishment since the beginning of the expac, and there really is no chance they just remove it, what kind of energy design do we want it to have?
3 Likes
(Hugs her thistle tea and hisses like a feral cat)
3 Likes
BlizZard can make energy and combo points work but the problem is that they insist on making baseline energy weak for Rogue. Meaning you have to take many energy talents to reach that baseline and in Outlaw case heavily rely on AR uptime.
2 Likes
i dont drink tea often, but when i do its thistle
3 Likes
I used to live in the UK, strap that stuff up to me intravenously, please.
2 Likes
Energy regen is probably the #1 concern for all three Rogue specs in TWW alpha at the moment.
3 Likes
Energy was actually good at first in beta but the cult cried he listened and you see the results.
5 Likes
I am not a hater of the discord because Fiery Demise has been very kind to peeps on the forum and the discord and has extended invites to many of us to the discord for many years.
But at the same time we need more of a balanced āmatureā discussion from various sources and not just discord IMVHO.
2 Likes