im gonna gaslight you again.
Wh⌠what?
Are you people really so thrown by edit: 890 words of coherent text that you canât conceive humans can write them? I know our personal capabilities are meant to atrophy roughly in proportion as technological capability grows, but this is egregious.
Why are you fossicking through weeks-old threads? 
The only pattern youâre finding is that people arenât very good edit: readers. Exactly as happened here someone thought I was agreeing with their position when in fact I was pointing out the edges and contours. Not that itâs remotely relevant in this thread, but the pattern is thus:
- Someone: Windwalker is pandaren-specific because of its name! You canât imagine a Windwalker that isnât a pandaren!
- Me: Yes I can, here are three examples of non-pandaren Windwalkers and Brewmasters.
- Someone: So you admit it! Name does enforce race!
No, you said that âWindwalkerâ and âBrewmasterâ could only be pandaren. I showed you were wrong. You getting confused is not a me thing, itâs a reading comprehension thing.
Repeating:
- Someone: Sub rogue is terrible and itâs impossible to succeed. All you can do is be annoying.
- Me: Poster above is a clown. Sub rogue is amazing. Since you said your gear is terrible, focus on being annoying.
- Someone else: So you admit it! Poster above isnât a clown!
No, they said that sub rogue is terrible and canât succeed without secret plans and consumables and so on. I observed that theyâre wrong and sub rogue slaps. The confusion is not a me thing, itâs a reading comprehension thing.
Edited the âreading comprehensionâ explanation somewhat to make it clearer because when youâre trying to help reading comprehension you gotta be real clear. Also edited in this explanation of the edits because for some reason edits make Chucky cry and / or weirdly think that going through after the fact improving individual areas of a piece of writing makes it look more artificially generated, lol.
No one believes you pally dude.
Plus this is a thread about Rogue rework which I think Rogues are long overdue!!!
No? Not the same reason at all. You misinterpret things worse than he does.
1 Like
Didnât you use chatgpt to generate a comeback and forget to remove all the give give away emojis and formatting?
2 Likes
All 3 have been viable this extire xpac so�
Whats your point now?
1 Like
Rent free. 
Iâd rather just discuss Rogue issues, if we can stick to that.
Yes, because thatâs the same as asking chatgpt to write your come backs for you and pass them off as your own⌠/s
You are such a lolcow.
1 Like
Well I was trying, but it turns out you donât want to read anything and just scream âAIâ if anyone lets the discussion get remotely involved. Thereâs no conversation to be had with someone who behaves like that.
3 Likes
It wasnât the extremely obvious wall of AI text and copy/paste errors you made. I had already stopped reading what you were saying right about here. 
Also, youâve written thousands of words trying to argue that names donât matter, while at the same time explaining in great length how certain names fit better or worse with races and archetypes.
This isnât a lab experiment, no âcausative forces,â weâre just talking design intent and framing. If you think names donât matter then you wouldnât need to spend this much effort explaining how they do.
Again, thank you for your contributions. If anyone else wants to read what you said, they are free to do so and decide for themselves. 
Id like to see the Outlaw spec reverted back to being Combat Spec
4 Likes
Ya, more and more, I kind of want Combat back and Outlaw to lean into a pistol banging gambling spec. Blade flurry would be dropped from Outlaw and back to Combat.
It would be a third mid-range DPS spec (counting the upcoming void DH spec).
Alternatively, keep Outlaw sort of as-is and introduce a new 4th spec instead of bringing Combat back.
Big changes where all spec names changed for any class in this game would probably be the flag that the game is âoverâ for me.
4 Likes
I think 4th spec should be the next step of the game. give me combat rogue back, make it a merc tank. as much as I donât like outlaw, its still the â3rdâ rogue spec to me, cause even back then people didnât really have a finite âcombat rogueâ is this type thing.
remember, we had dagger combat rogue for the higher crit just stabbing, dual mace stun spec rogue for cheeky pvp or extra CC in dungeons, sword spec was the double tap, in wotlk we got the lumberjack build with axes. and even though all of this is pretty much just vanilla/classic ideas cause even in TBC that kinda died off but the options were still there, it still felt more rogue than current outlaw does. i even prefer the revealing strike/ bandits guile gameplay over, crackshot and keep it rolling.
imo combat rogue always was the âweapon master in the shadowsâ a merc who took aggro in dungeons or a maybe a unlucky last man standing with aggro in raid, pops evasion and sometimes a miracle can happen.
it might sound silly to some, but Combat rogue had its purpose and shine before the redesign in legion.
I still think with how outlaw works its not even a rogue and should be a separate class, I mean whatâs wrong with adding another energy class anyways? isnât that what the vibe was when monk first came around? a lot of rogue went Windwalker and never looked back. and that semi sorta happened again when demon hunters were introduced not because energy based, but because MOVEMENT based, lot of mobility and high APM.
idk maybe after playing the game for 20 years, and having a personal understanding of what made each version of rogue cherished through each expansion just makes it harder to try to jell with outlaw even now cause it really feels like the devs dont know what it is still, cause even in legion it felt tacked on and out of place.
making the stealth class have a loud obnoxious gun totter as a spec just makes no sense to me personally because its more gun than sword now. even if people wanna cope its after Vancleef, which I would argue we got the wrong Vancleef as a representative tbh. it shouldâve been Venessa. I get we arenât âninjas in pajamasâ anymore. but I thought the Outlaw spec was about standing toe to toe, with your wits and your weapons, parries and deflections, adrenaline, old riposte that smacked like a hammer and disarmed your enemy. not a pretend stealth class, to use my gun more in vanish windows.
so yeah either 4th specs would go super hard (Combat Rogue Tank), or outlaw becomes its own class stands on its own legs and gets 2 more specs, you could learn further into the pirate on one side with party resources, going full gangplank type situation, call in aoe canon barrages. make use of more sword style swashbuckling, and the other could lean down more of full range spec, dual gunner. right now hunter is the only spec in the game using ranged weapons right? so why not introduce pistols for the only class that can use pistols, especially with the new killing spree animation⌠like its just reaper at that point. makes sense to me. ive always found it odd this gun spec has no actual gun and we just whimsy it out from our side pockets, but if crackshot has anything to say, the gun should be obviously be in the off hand slot and not another melee weapon. since we use it so frequently.
either way, for outlaw even since its introduction it has gone through quite a lot of âwhats this? whats that?â since legion till now. its becoming more sore thumb and forced feeling than genuine direction. for combat, its still there to me, in the shadows waiting, biding its time.
4 Likes
Im.in love wifh ur idea! Ao much more class fantasy to be had!
And as a troll player venom dabala shadowhunter or just shadowhunter for sub replacement sounds peak!
1 Like
You can tell this is a well thought out post because Blizzard is ignoring it.
Iâd be embarrassed if the players put more thought into the classes than I did, too. lol
2 Likes
Yeah, it was really jarring for me to come back to WoW and see Combat had been changed to Outlaw and redesigned around an RNG combo finisher.
Combat was my main spec basically since release. I play Assassination now since that basically plays like Combat minus Blade Flurry and AR. Not a fan.
3 Likes
Who is âwe?â Speak for yourself. I want none of what you mentioned.
5 Likes
if a 4th spec was introduced, a combat tank spec would be ok. Although I think anything rogue tank idea ability wise was used in monk and demon hunter tanking specs.
4 Likes
it worked just fine in season of discovery. and its not like it used any new abilities in SoD outside of a few runes. it was still a rogue tank, most of its dodge came from a finishing move that just increased your parries and dodge. most of its self sustain came from tier bonus set so that could be argued. and funnily enough the spec was very good with energy regeneration that you didnât need adrenaline rush because it was overkill with that versions of AR.
my point being that a lot of classes are already homogenized. its about the flavor of the class you are playing that makes the difference. and like Iâve stated before, a lot of rogue went to the new shiny leather classes through the history of this game and just kinda hung up their rogues. or went Sin or Sub.
but I get what you are trying to say, but lets not pretend the potential isnât there and its individuality wouldnât be retained. monk and DH just cause they dodge a lot and parry and have some self sustain doesnât mean they are exactly the same. just like war vs DK vs pally or the bear that has all the other specs in the game if they donât wanna be tank.
they are all doing the same thing. just in a different flavor. the nameâs of abilities that do what, and when shouldnât be that creatively hard to make, especially if they already have something to draw from that isnât already existing in the retail version.
but I also say 4th spec for ALL classes. not just rogue. and what that 4th spec could be, could be a great way to get classes to rally up and decide on something new to add to the game, though if we are honest that will never happen. thatâs just more work and balance for a company that seemingly can barely take feedback, or acknowledge classes.
3 Likes
and while none of what I mentioned is what you want. there is a long history of rogues whom after legion that would still like combat rogue back. whether you want to acknowledge that or not. feigning ignorance in a discussion where people are trying to rally behind a class, go for it. Iâm just saying, just because you donât see them. doesnât mean they arenât there. the forums is more of a niche than the actual game is.
Iâve read tons of opinions on this class over the YEARS without engaging in the forums and Iâm quite sure there are a lot more people out there doing the same.
not sure what else to say besides we all want to enjoy the game, so why make snide remarks if you donât agree? right?
I still play the game cause I enjoy watching the game expand and seeing its flaws or good bits. I still enjoy all my characters after all this time, and Iâm sure there are many others who have done the opposite.
3 Likes